Guernsey Courtesy Flag

[guernseyman]

Don't be pedantic. Here is the quote:- "British Yachts do not fly a courtesy in the Channel Islands since these are part of the British Isles".

Reeds Almanac does not say anything like that.

Whether the Channel Islands are part of the British Isles is quite contentious. If you look at maps or charts it is quite evident that the Channel Islands are offshore islands of Normandy. There the matter might rest except that there is a minority who reckon that British Isles comprises all the islands off the shores of NW Europe.

 

[Sybarite]

I thought people Guernsey folk are known as sarnians?

Ask MrBS18...!!!

 

[Black Sheep]

Reeds Almanac does not say anything like that.

I don't know whether the current Reeds does, but the 2007 copy (the same vintage as this thread) does indeed say "British Yachts do not fly a courtesy flag in the Channel Islands since these are part of the British Isles". It's in the flag etiquette section, end of para 4.11.3

I make no comment on whether the term "British Isles" is appropriate.

My current Reeds is on board & out of reach. It would be interesting to have it confirmed whether they have removed/amended the sentence during the last 13 years.

 

[nortada]

Sarnia is the Roman name for Guernsey.

I was evacuated as a child from Guernsey just prior to the German invasion, (for many reasons we never returned after the war) and I can remember my mother wistfully singing a song called 'Sarnia Cherie' in the Guernsey patois, which was also sung at Channel Islands refugee get-togethers, brought back some memories at the mention of the name... thank you.

Guest ? Not seen that category of membership before.

 

[[3889]]

Don't be pedantic. Here is the quote:- "British Yachts do not fly a courtesy in the Channel Islands since these are part of the British Isles".

Ireland is part of that archipelago but that's nothing to do with state boundaries or courtesy flags. I'd also dispute that the CIs are part of the British Isles.
Wiki: "The islands of Alderney, Jersey, Guernsey, and Sark, and their neighbouring smaller islands, are sometimes also taken to be part of the British Isles,[10] even though, as islands off the coast of France, they do not form part of the archipelago."
Because something is written in a book doesn't make it correct. Try telling the Croatian maritime police that a courtesy flag is voluntary, as per Reeds, when they slap you with a fine for not flying one.

 

[doug748]

Do they like us to fly one?

If so: Where can I get one?

Thanks

I've never noticed anybody bothering much one way or the other. On your boat you will probably only meet other yachtpersons and the harbour staff anyway.

Jimmy Green does them and you can choose either the Guernsey flag or defaced ensign (see nearby thread).

.

 

[CLB]

I would view a Jersey or Guernsey courtesy flag in the same way that I would view flying a Devon, Cornwall or Scottish courtesy flag. If you want to, go ahead, but as far as I am concerned completely unnecessary.

 

[SaltyC]

Being pedantic, I will happily fly a courtesy flag ( & Do) for The Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, they are NOT part of the UK, they are protectorates. The individual counties / areas of the UK are part of the UK therefore a courtesy flag is unnecessary, you may wish to fly one to appease their feeling of importance, I regret devolution is to me appeasement and money from the majority for the minority. I will now retire under my stone and await the bricks.

 

[WalshamUK]

I've sailed into Guernsey several times from the UK. Nobody cares about a courtesy flag. But if anybody wants to fly one, then that's OK as well.

 

[laika]

I will happily fly a courtesy flag ( & Do) for The Channel Islands and the Isle of Man

I don't think I've ever seen a French boat fly a channel islands courtesy flag. If they fly anything it's usually a scrappy little union flag and *very* occasionally an actual british courtesy flag. I do have a guernsey courtesy flag. I've never been to Jersey by boat. Nobody has seemed upset in Alderney. There's too few people on Herm to bother about offending and on Sark I'm already permanently worried about being kidnapped by satanic cultists so lack of a courtesy flag is usually the least of my worries.

 

[Lucky Duck]

Guest ? Not seen that category of membership before.

It's a 13 year old thread, no idea why post #21 resurrected it

 

[ashtead]

Do curtesy flags for the ioW still exist ? I'm sure they used to sell them in Cowes but so long since I lasted visited by boat I've forgotten ?

 

[JumbleDuck]

The individual counties / areas of the UK are part of the UK therefore a courtesy flag is unnecessary, you may wish to fly one to appease their feeling of importance ...

Or just out of general friendliness.

 

[alahol2]

Do curtesy flags for the ioW still exist ? I'm sure they used to sell them in Cowes but so long since I lasted visited by boat I've forgotten ?

Wight courtesy

 

[ashtead]

Thank you - must invest as I rather doubt my CI ones will have an airing this year

 

[guernseyman]

I don't know whether the current Reeds does, but the 2007 copy (the same vintage as this thread) does indeed say "British Yachts do not fly a courtesy flag in the Channel Islands since these are part of the British Isles". It's in the flag etiquette section, end of para 4.11.3

I make no comment on whether the term "British Isles" is appropriate.

My current Reeds is on board & out of reach. It would be interesting to have it confirmed whether they have removed/amended the sentence during the last 13 years.

Around 2012 the Reeds text for the CI was updated, particularly in relation to Health matters, which now differ considerably between the two Bailiwicks.
Rules for anything, even courtesy flags, cannot have anything to do with the British Isles as that is a geographical term without any generally accepted meaning.
And don't get me started on whatever British might mean.

I see someone is posting that Sarnia is the Roman name for Guernsey. It is now widely accepted that is in error and a mis-interpretation of the Latin document known as the Antonine Itinerary. It is much more likely to have been Lisia or Lesia.

 

[GTom]

I would view a Jersey or Guernsey courtesy flag in the same way that I would view flying a Devon, Cornwall or Scottish courtesy flag. If you want to, go ahead, but as far as I am concerned completely unnecessary.

My favorite is the Welsh one Do Guernsey registered boats fly a Jersey courtesy flag when they drop by in St Helier?

 

[Arcady]

My favorite is the Welsh one Do Guernsey registered boats fly a Jersey courtesy flag when they drop by in St Helier?

Yes! Well at least I do

 

[Black Sheep]

Rules for anything, even courtesy flags, cannot have anything to do with the British Isles as that is a geographical term without any generally accepted meaning.
And don't get me started on whatever British might mean.

I agree that the quoted sentence from Reeds 2007 is nonsense. For example, those who use the term "British Isles" would normally include the whole of the island of Ireland: Reeds therefore seemed to suggest that a UK yacht visiting Eire should not wear a courtesy flag!

If the term is intended to describe the geographical archipelago, then I agree with you that Guernsey and Jersey don't seem to belong (though I note that opinion differs). And as you say, the physical geography is irrelevant; what matters is the political geography.

I could sort of understood the Reeds assertion if they'd used the term "British Islands" to indicate a political grouping. Though that's a distinction lost on many. If they really wanted to say that UK yachts needn't fly a courtesy ensign, they should have said "...since they are Crown Dependencies". But as already pointed out, this is at least partly contradicted in Section 19. Better, I think, just to remove the sentence.

All of which is to far too zealously pick apart a badly thought out sentence from 13 years ago, that has hopefully since been deleted. But I'm grateful to you for prompting me to remind myself of the politics behind terms like "British Isles" (I think the Irish have views!) and of the various ways of grouping the islands of NW Europe. I wish there was a better term that didn't involve the B word.

In the mean time, when I eventually get down in that general direction, I will be sure to have, and to use, the courtesy ensigns!

 

[alahol2]

... But I'm grateful to you for prompting me to remind myself of the politics behind terms like "British Isles" (I think the Irish have views!) and of the various ways of grouping the islands of NW Europe. I wish there was a better term that didn't involve the B word...

United Kingdom?