1bobt
N/A
Your having a laugh aren't you? You can pay your bill in full inclusive of VAT. That does not mean that the person your paying does not pocket the lot
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Greek Tax (how will it affect you)
- Thread starter Sybaris
- Start date
Your having a laugh aren't you? You can pay your bill in full inclusive of VAT. That does not mean that the person your paying does not pocket the lot
ITH
Well-Known Member
Hollow laughter . . . ?
The OP's remarks related to the practice of suppliers not issuing bills (as a quid pro quo for avoiding VAT); hence my question of whether 'responsibility' for the practice was a two-way affair or not.
Illegal accounting, when a VAT-inclusive bill is issued, is another thing entirely and I am not qualified to pronounce on its prevalence in the country. As someone with business interests in Greece you will no doubt be more familiar with the situation than me.
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
Have you not heard of double taxation ? UnLess there got business interest in Greece I dough if they would be liable for tax unless people who own houses there .
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ITH
Well-Known Member
Must have been lost in translation, but I wasn't 'stating any reality', just posing a question about where responsibility for the practice ends.
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
From someone who has been in business for more years then I can remember , the responsibility for charging VAT is with the trader not with the buyer , the trader by law as to charge VAT then pay it to the government , if the trader don't charge VAT or as it been in Greece , charge it don't give a receipt and then pocket it , it the trader that breaking the law not the buyer .
Retired in Crete
Well-Known Member
Of course I have heard of double taxation. I also know that Greece and the UK have a double taxation agreement. The procedure is simple, you are assessed for tax in Greece and then you can claim back the tax already paid in the UK.
If you live in Greece for longer than 6 months you are liable for Greek tax. If you live off pensions (as I do) you get them tax free and are taxed on them here. Even if you live off your UK savings you are liable for tax here on any interest you receive. The only exceptions to this are if you have certain civil service pensions. Obviously, if you have business interests or work in Greece you are also liable for tax here. Incidentally, if they think that you do not declare enough to support your lifestyle they will assume that you must have worked and will tax you on your assumed income.
John
Glyka
Well-Known Member
Just out of curiosity. Is the tax that you pay here more than what you would have paid in the UK or less?
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
The reason you are paying tax in Greece is because you are not being taxed on your pension in the UK , if it was a normal state pension you be under your personal allowance and would not be paying tax any where , so I guess you are getting over the £5700 pension and the extra amount is taken you over your personal allowance and that why you are paying tax in Greece ,
On the other hand
If you pay tax on saving or pension in the UK usually you wouldn't be paying again in another country with an agreement with the UK .
I am no expect but the way I understand it works is ,
If you have income or savings in one country and are resident in another country, you may have to pay tax in both countries under their tax laws. The UK has negotiated ‘double taxation agreements’ with a large number of countries for people in this situation so that they do not usually have to pay tax in both countries.
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Retired in Crete
Well-Known Member
I will try to explain the tax situation.
Prior to around 2010 (sorry I cannot remember exactly when) the general rule was that you were taxed in the country where the income was generated. This was changed by the European Union who decreed that people should be taxed where they reside as that is where they receive the benefits(?) provided by the government. The definition of residency is that you spend more than 6 months in a country.
When this change took place the Inland Revenue (I know that it is not called that now) sent me forms (they knew I was here) to complete to claim back the tax I had paid in that year. The completed form had to be taken to the Greek tax office for them to confirm that they were taxing me and then sent to the UK tax office. About 3 months later the UK tax I had paid in that year was refunded and I became taxed in Greece. The UK tax office also advised my private pension providers (in the UK) that I should be paid tax free. In the UK my tax was collected under PAYE but in Greece I receive an annual tax bill after filling in a tax return at the end of each year.
The tax I pay in Greece is more than I would pay in the UK as the personal allowances are lower. I also have to pay a "luxury" tax which is based on the size of my swimming pool. This luxury tax is also applied to certain expensive cars and to some boats.
There are, of course, some ways of avoiding some taxes or being taxed here but I am not sure that a public forum is the place to advertise these!
I have no wish to take over this thread with tax explanations or advice so perhaps if there are any further questions you could PM me. I will do my best to answer.
John
PS As a Greek taxpayer I can vote in the local elections but not in the government elections as these are restricted to Greek Nationals.
Prior to around 2010 (sorry I cannot remember exactly when) the general rule was that you were taxed in the country where the income was generated. This was changed by the European Union who decreed that people should be taxed where they reside as that is where they receive the benefits(?) provided by the government. The definition of residency is that you spend more than 6 months in a country.
When this change took place the Inland Revenue (I know that it is not called that now) sent me forms (they knew I was here) to complete to claim back the tax I had paid in that year. The completed form had to be taken to the Greek tax office for them to confirm that they were taxing me and then sent to the UK tax office. About 3 months later the UK tax I had paid in that year was refunded and I became taxed in Greece. The UK tax office also advised my private pension providers (in the UK) that I should be paid tax free. In the UK my tax was collected under PAYE but in Greece I receive an annual tax bill after filling in a tax return at the end of each year.
The tax I pay in Greece is more than I would pay in the UK as the personal allowances are lower. I also have to pay a "luxury" tax which is based on the size of my swimming pool. This luxury tax is also applied to certain expensive cars and to some boats.
There are, of course, some ways of avoiding some taxes or being taxed here but I am not sure that a public forum is the place to advertise these!
I have no wish to take over this thread with tax explanations or advice so perhaps if there are any further questions you could PM me. I will do my best to answer.
John
PS As a Greek taxpayer I can vote in the local elections but not in the government elections as these are restricted to Greek Nationals.
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Glyka
Well-Known Member
Thanks.
Steve C Cronin
N/A
VAT avoidance is not the primary motive. Don't forget the income tax!
A marina supermarket we use regularly is famous for it's piling cash up outside the till and then the owner pocketing it. The current law in Greece says that you have no obligation to pay for anything unless you are given a proper bill but how many charter boat punters stocking up are going to be aware of that or even care?
How many tavernas use anonymous white tablet notepads?
PLEIAS
Well-Known Member
Suddenly we have all kinds of experts commenting on VAT -income tax - luxury tax-tax evading and how to!!!!Good luck with their advices and i hope that they advise a lot better on other topics otherwise we'll have a lot of mothers crying for their children sunk.
Cardo
Well-Known Member
The way I see it is thus:
The government will collect more money due to this tax than they did before.
Many boats will still spend the same budget overall, however instead of giving the money to the businesses in the areas they visit this portion of money will go to the government.
Really, the biggest losers here? The businesses that will lose out on that income.
Who's to blame? Well, that's an entirely different thread.
The government will collect more money due to this tax than they did before.
Many boats will still spend the same budget overall, however instead of giving the money to the businesses in the areas they visit this portion of money will go to the government.
Really, the biggest losers here? The businesses that will lose out on that income.
Who's to blame? Well, that's an entirely different thread.
Steve C Cronin
N/A
So?
Greece, although a country of masters in the subject of tax evasion NOT avoidance (that, although considered by many to be "immoral" is NOT actually illegal , well NOT in the UK anyway), is certainly NOt alone in that respect. However WE in the UK do a lot more about it than you do! If you WERE efficient at it, we would not be being asked to bail you out yet again! Suck that and get the wealthy dynasties of your country - you know the names as well as I do to pay their fair share! Mind you, if you go by the information supplied by Davy S, others AND MY personal experience, they are not alone and there are plenty of small businesses in Greece who believe that it is improper or unreasonable for them to pay tax.
I think I get it now: impose it on Greeks only and your government fear yet another bout of overturned and burning cars and buses in the streets of Athens, right?
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Steve C Cronin
N/A
"The government will collect more money due to this tax than they did before" YES but NOT from the people they have declared they are targeting.
Well, putting aside your "entirely different thread" for a moment, it may well be true that this "State Robbery" (OKA "Tax") may not disuade people like us, retired and just wanting to spend more of our now limited time in a country we love very much, from moving out, since most of us probably have only around 10years or very much less in some cases, to go there but I'm sure as hell convinced that it will certainly put off vast numbers from thinking about doing the same going forward. I will NEVER get my head around the idea that when you have declared a desire to catch your own country's tax evaders, you are happy to burden your friends as "easy meat" relying on the fact that they don't have the advantage of clever local tax advisers (mentioning no names!)to evade the charge.
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daveg45
Well-Known Member
I have only cruised the med for a couple of years or so and seem to have arrived just as countries seem to be viewing yachties as a cash cow.
That being said I have spent a few months anchored in pollence, Mallorca for example paying absolutely nothing and in Greece and other locations the same applies. I have taken advantage of an infrastructure provided at such places. Ie supermarkets, banks, even dentists street lighting, refuse bins etc and felt a degree of guilt that I am not actually contribution much to the local economy on which I rely. Let's face it, cruising yachties seem to want to live for nothing or less and sail off in search of cheap plonk at the next Llidl supermarket (me included). Suggesting we are paying our way by spending our hard earned cash at the places on food doesn't quite cut it. How long could we cruise the islands if they were not inhabited?
The Greeks have an asset in the way of a popular sailing area so why shouldn't they receive revenue from it. Just think how much cash you would burn through anchoring in places like Dartmouth or Salcombe on a daily basis for example. A damn site more than the £2 a day a 12.6m yacht will cost assuming 12 months use. You hardly sail anywhere in the UK without getting your wallet out. So while you are sailing around the beautiful Greek islands what makes you think you have the right to do so for free?
Would prefer to pay nothing? Of course I would ......Just a thought
That being said I have spent a few months anchored in pollence, Mallorca for example paying absolutely nothing and in Greece and other locations the same applies. I have taken advantage of an infrastructure provided at such places. Ie supermarkets, banks, even dentists street lighting, refuse bins etc and felt a degree of guilt that I am not actually contribution much to the local economy on which I rely. Let's face it, cruising yachties seem to want to live for nothing or less and sail off in search of cheap plonk at the next Llidl supermarket (me included). Suggesting we are paying our way by spending our hard earned cash at the places on food doesn't quite cut it. How long could we cruise the islands if they were not inhabited?
The Greeks have an asset in the way of a popular sailing area so why shouldn't they receive revenue from it. Just think how much cash you would burn through anchoring in places like Dartmouth or Salcombe on a daily basis for example. A damn site more than the £2 a day a 12.6m yacht will cost assuming 12 months use. You hardly sail anywhere in the UK without getting your wallet out. So while you are sailing around the beautiful Greek islands what makes you think you have the right to do so for free?
Would prefer to pay nothing? Of course I would ......Just a thought
1bobt
N/A
Daveg45 Please don`t feel guilty , you pay duty on fuel and VAT on food,drink and services .Not that all these bushiness pass it on to their government,.They are so good at this deception that their Accountants know nothing about it.
Cardo
Well-Known Member
And how much money have these Greek islands received from EU funding? (Funds that the UK will have provided a fair share of, raised by taxes that we will have all paid)
I don't go for the free anchorage but using the lighting/rubbish bins guilt trip, it's more than paid for.
I don't go for the free anchorage but using the lighting/rubbish bins guilt trip, it's more than paid for.
Steve C Cronin
N/A
Any town or even village without the (now rusting) blue and white "EU Funding" sign is probably derelict and abandoned but certainly not devoid of unfinished projects.
Chris_Robb
Well-Known Member
We don't directly contribute for the Euro problems, but we have a very significant contribution to the EU Structural Funds. Greece has now got funding from this for 4 new motorways - or rather completion of the ones we probably have already paid for.......
So no guilt trip needed!
Sorry - I won't post anymore on this thread any more - smack hand etc......
