nickf
Well-Known Member
Not aware of this advice, doesn't appear to be on the Foreign Office website.
greek marina costs
- Thread starter catmandoo
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Not aware of this advice, doesn't appear to be on the Foreign Office website.
Davy_S
Well-Known Member
Sybaris
Well-Known Member
Despite of what the doom and gloomers will have you believe the majority of Greeks are actually extremely kind and honest. Kind of crazy that I actually have to point this out. I don't think the business honesty is any worse here than in any other western country, but hey each one for him/her self.
We were advised by the same doom and gloomers two years ago to immediately leave Greece because a new tax would have us pay several thousand Euros in back tax to cruise in Greece. It never happened.
If you have any wish to give Greece a helping hand it certainly doesn't help to instigate unfounded or far fledged worst case scenarios.
Cheers,
Per
We were advised by the same doom and gloomers two years ago to immediately leave Greece because a new tax would have us pay several thousand Euros in back tax to cruise in Greece. It never happened.
If you have any wish to give Greece a helping hand it certainly doesn't help to instigate unfounded or far fledged worst case scenarios.
Cheers,
Per
Sybaris
Well-Known Member
By the way, here is some food for thought:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17155304
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17155304
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
I was wrong, Haig was saying this in an interview. But why?
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
By the way not doom or gloomers! I'm still here and staying here, just being a little more careful, also best read all of that article again if I were you. The Greeks are productive at what exactly? What do the Greeks export for their collective balance of payments? The greeks may work more hours, but at what and why?
nickf
Well-Known Member
Because it is standard Foreign Office advice for any one living abroard to register their address with the local High Commission, Embassy or Consulate?
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nickf
Well-Known Member
Greece exported over 20,000 million US dollars worth of goods and 37,000 USD of services in 2010. Some of the main exports are food, metals, machinery and petroleum products, then of cause there is the shipping industry. They rank at about 32 in the world economy by GDP.
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sunshinesailing
Active Member
Greek Marinas 23% discount
Quote "Despite of what the doom and gloomers will have you believe the majority of Greeks are actually extremely kind and honest. Kind of crazy that I actually have to point this out. I don't think the business honesty is any worse here than in any other western country, but hey each one for him/her self.
We were advised by the same doom and gloomers two years ago to immediately leave Greece because a new tax would have us pay several thousand Euros in back tax to cruise in Greece. It never happened.
If you have any wish to give Greece a helping hand it certainly doesn't help to instigate unfounded or far fledged worst case scenarios".
There doesn't appear to be any doom and gloom in this thread just a discussion on the practical application of the dire Greek economy on cruising.The tax discussion of a year or so ago enabled cruisers to understand the tax liability when cruising Greece. As far as is known that tax law is still on the books only not being enforced. That could change at any moment. Those cruising in Greece will have the tax liability. Some chose to cruise Greece some chose to stay away. Under the thumbscrews of the first two bailouts there is more likely hood that more tax laws will be enforced. It would be helpful to hear from Plaeis on this. These are not unfounded far fledged worst case scenarios.
It could also be that the best way to save a business in Greece is to collapse it if there is Government default. There is no comment here on honesty.
Yes Greeks are for the most part kind, honest, hard working and deserve every opportunity to thrive. The opportunity being given the Greeks by their politicians in seeking and agreeing bail outs is wrong. The Greek people should have the chance to choose default or bail out through a referendum.
Smooth sailing.
Quote "Despite of what the doom and gloomers will have you believe the majority of Greeks are actually extremely kind and honest. Kind of crazy that I actually have to point this out. I don't think the business honesty is any worse here than in any other western country, but hey each one for him/her self.
We were advised by the same doom and gloomers two years ago to immediately leave Greece because a new tax would have us pay several thousand Euros in back tax to cruise in Greece. It never happened.
If you have any wish to give Greece a helping hand it certainly doesn't help to instigate unfounded or far fledged worst case scenarios".
There doesn't appear to be any doom and gloom in this thread just a discussion on the practical application of the dire Greek economy on cruising.The tax discussion of a year or so ago enabled cruisers to understand the tax liability when cruising Greece. As far as is known that tax law is still on the books only not being enforced. That could change at any moment. Those cruising in Greece will have the tax liability. Some chose to cruise Greece some chose to stay away. Under the thumbscrews of the first two bailouts there is more likely hood that more tax laws will be enforced. It would be helpful to hear from Plaeis on this. These are not unfounded far fledged worst case scenarios.
It could also be that the best way to save a business in Greece is to collapse it if there is Government default. There is no comment here on honesty.
Yes Greeks are for the most part kind, honest, hard working and deserve every opportunity to thrive. The opportunity being given the Greeks by their politicians in seeking and agreeing bail outs is wrong. The Greek people should have the chance to choose default or bail out through a referendum.
Smooth sailing.
Glyka
Well-Known Member
Greek Economy
As a Greek I would like to defend Greek people by reminding you a couple of facts.
1. Greek military spendings rise to 4,2% of GDP whereas Germany only spends 1,7% of its GDP for the same purpose. Had our European "allies", "friends" and "partners" guaranteed Greek (European) borders this would leave a 2,5% of the GDP yearly for the last 67 years. Do the math - setting aside interest if you like.
2. Germany owns its prosperity partially due the its failure to pay not only war reparations to Greece but - wait for it - not even the forced loan that the Reich took from the Greek state during the WWII occupation of the country. You can find the figures estimated by third party analysts to range between 120 and 567 billion euros.
In fact Germany defaulted twice. First after WWII when it postponed repayments until it re-unifies and then when this happened and they "forgot".
It's as if I can hear: "Now that doesn't fit. Do you mean that easy-living Greeks should be better off than the hard-working Germans?". The answer is: why not? Greeks may not be as hard-working as the Protestant Germans but they have other qualities. They are flexible, industrious and imaginative. Plus, they have more natural resources.
Counter arguments are highly encouraged.
As a Greek I would like to defend Greek people by reminding you a couple of facts.
1. Greek military spendings rise to 4,2% of GDP whereas Germany only spends 1,7% of its GDP for the same purpose. Had our European "allies", "friends" and "partners" guaranteed Greek (European) borders this would leave a 2,5% of the GDP yearly for the last 67 years. Do the math - setting aside interest if you like.
2. Germany owns its prosperity partially due the its failure to pay not only war reparations to Greece but - wait for it - not even the forced loan that the Reich took from the Greek state during the WWII occupation of the country. You can find the figures estimated by third party analysts to range between 120 and 567 billion euros.
In fact Germany defaulted twice. First after WWII when it postponed repayments until it re-unifies and then when this happened and they "forgot".
It's as if I can hear: "Now that doesn't fit. Do you mean that easy-living Greeks should be better off than the hard-working Germans?". The answer is: why not? Greeks may not be as hard-working as the Protestant Germans but they have other qualities. They are flexible, industrious and imaginative. Plus, they have more natural resources.
Counter arguments are highly encouraged.
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duncan99210
Well-Known Member
Glyka,
No one disputes that the Greek nation suffered under the German occupation in WW2. However, no nation today seriously seeks to atribute decades of economic mismangement to a lack of German reparations.
Equally, no one disputes that the Greeks spend a disproportinate % of GDP on their defence budget. The question is why did they do this? IMHO is is to ensure that the military do not resume the antics of the Colonels and is nothing to do with the mythical threat from Turkey.
No one disputes that the Greek nation suffered under the German occupation in WW2. However, no nation today seriously seeks to atribute decades of economic mismangement to a lack of German reparations.
Equally, no one disputes that the Greeks spend a disproportinate % of GDP on their defence budget. The question is why did they do this? IMHO is is to ensure that the military do not resume the antics of the Colonels and is nothing to do with the mythical threat from Turkey.
Glyka
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reply.
Economic mismanagement is a possible explanation, not a fact whereas lack of reparations and more importantly lack of loan repayment are facts.
The colonels' coup was not a Latin American Junta. It had nothing to do with the military being underpayed or under-funded.
If the threat fromTurkey was mythical why didn't the EU (with two nuclear powers) guarantee its borders at no cost?
By the way, are Cyprus invasion and Imia dispute mythical? Are the Aegean "grey zones" mythical? Are Turkish oil researches in Greek waters mythical? Is the former Turkish PM's recent confession that Turkish MIT had some involvment in Greek forests' arsons mythical?
Nah sey kala (be well - in Greek of course)
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little_roundtop
Well-Known Member
I think the mistake that most northern Europeans (esp. politicians) are making in regard to Greece and her problems is to assume that Greeks think more or less the same way we do. They don't.
Greeks do not look forward. They have no interest in next week, much less next year. But they do look back, and they look back a long way, right back to the Byzantine Empire. Even the TV weather forecasts still label Istanbul as Constantinople. The Greeks see themselves as the surviving part of Byzantium and the (Ottoman) Turks as invaders. That's the real source of the Greeks fear of the Turks.
The Greeks do still look back to the German occupation in WWII with very fresh memories. They do still think that Germany "owes" them - especially here on Crete. So it really does annoy them when the Germans once again seem to be in control of their destiny. It's hardly surprising that the issue of the theft of their gold reserves (never returned) is still alive and well here.
I'm not suggesting that Greeks are perfect, far from it. Their biggest problem as I see it is the "me" culture that is endemic here. But that's the Greek way.
Greeks don't think like the Germans or French, or British. That doesn't make them wrong, it just makes them different. The EU/IMF/ECB doesn't seem to understand that, and that's why the medicine they're applying is killing the patient.
Squeaky
Well-Known Member
Good morning;
Glyka: Are Turkish oil researches in Greek waters mythical? Is the former Turkish PM's recent confession that Turkish MIT had some involvment in Greek forests' arsons mythical?
I am sure no one wants to turn this thread into a political discussion about sins of the past but I am afraid I have to dispute your assertions above.
The Greek government issued exploration permits to some companies for an areas of the Aegean for which the ownership was disputed and for which it had been agreed that that neither Turkey or Greece would attempt to exploit until the matter was resolved. In retaliation the Turkish government also issued permits. It was a tit for tat situation which was provoked by actions of the Greek government.
I think you will find the allegation about forest fires was made by a minor opposition politician and certainly not a confession by the PM. Forest fires have been a subject which, for some reason, the Greeks have always blamed on others i.e tourists, Turks or anyone rather than accepting that much of the problem was the result of poor management or natural events.
Cheers
Squeaky
Glyka: Are Turkish oil researches in Greek waters mythical? Is the former Turkish PM's recent confession that Turkish MIT had some involvment in Greek forests' arsons mythical?
I am sure no one wants to turn this thread into a political discussion about sins of the past but I am afraid I have to dispute your assertions above.
The Greek government issued exploration permits to some companies for an areas of the Aegean for which the ownership was disputed and for which it had been agreed that that neither Turkey or Greece would attempt to exploit until the matter was resolved. In retaliation the Turkish government also issued permits. It was a tit for tat situation which was provoked by actions of the Greek government.
I think you will find the allegation about forest fires was made by a minor opposition politician and certainly not a confession by the PM. Forest fires have been a subject which, for some reason, the Greeks have always blamed on others i.e tourists, Turks or anyone rather than accepting that much of the problem was the result of poor management or natural events.
Cheers
Squeaky
Glyka
Well-Known Member
Mythical threat
Hi Squeaky,
Sorry if I'm boring you but I have to answer because the simplified version we usually know about somebody else's problem is most of the time misleading.
Disputed by whom and by which means?
Greece is constantly proposing since 1975 to let the International Court of Hagues solve the exploitation rights over the Aegean issue but Turkey argues that this is not a legal but a political issue, which of course means "it doesn't matter who is right, it only matters who is stronger".
And to remove any doubts about what a political solution is, Turkey (by its Grand National Assembly) has declared that an extension of the Greek waters to 12 NM (an international maritime law right) would be considered as Casus Belli.
And, Mesut Yilmaz is as former PM, not just a minor opposition politician.
Cheers
Hi Squeaky,
Sorry if I'm boring you but I have to answer because the simplified version we usually know about somebody else's problem is most of the time misleading.
Disputed by whom and by which means?
Greece is constantly proposing since 1975 to let the International Court of Hagues solve the exploitation rights over the Aegean issue but Turkey argues that this is not a legal but a political issue, which of course means "it doesn't matter who is right, it only matters who is stronger".
And to remove any doubts about what a political solution is, Turkey (by its Grand National Assembly) has declared that an extension of the Greek waters to 12 NM (an international maritime law right) would be considered as Casus Belli.
And, Mesut Yilmaz is as former PM, not just a minor opposition politician.
Cheers
Chris_Robb
Well-Known Member
Glyka, The Turkish invasion of Cyprus was to protect their citizens after that Junta lot took control, kicking Mackarios out (a Greek), and after Turkey had asked both Britain and France to no avail to step in under treaty obligations. Don't include THAT as justification.
Glyka
Well-Known Member
Yes, of course. I forgot that as soon as the coup failed, Turkish troops left the island
.Just yesterday, the Turkish Minister of European Affairs mr. Bayis said that annexing the occupied territories is a possibility. To protect them even more ...
rivonia
Well-Known Member
Hmm did'nt TURKEY give all or most of the Islands to GREECE?
Squeaky
Well-Known Member
Good morning:
Glyka: And, Mesut Yilmaz is as former PM, not just a minor opposition politician
********
Yes, of course. I forgot that as soon as the coup failed, Turkish troops left the island .
Just yesterday, the Turkish Minister of European Affairs mr. Bayis said that annexing the occupied territories is a possibility. To protect them even more ...
Mesut Yilmaz has not been involved in politics for a long long time so unless you have an agenda any remarks by him should be totally ignored. However if you are looking for something to complain about you can highlight these comments as justification to waste money beefing up the Greek military. You would have to add an awful lot of beef to cope with an Army that is the largest in NATO so why even bother.
A fat lot of good it would do anyone to have guarantees of their borders when one considers how well the French and Brits did in protecting the Turk Cyps when Samson and his gang began killing Turk Cyps.
No, the Greek military did not leave Cyprus and will not for sometime – Turkey has a very large military and have to put them someplace so what better place than Cyprus where they contribute to the local economy.
Yes, there are often comments about annexing TRNC but why shouldn’t they consider the future if the Greek Cypriot authorities continue to stall and refuse to honestly negotiate to arrive at a solution. Nothing useful has been achieved since the 1970s. Whose fault is it? Well, that depends on which side of the fence one is sitting. Personally I blame the lack of progress on the Greek Cypriots and I also look forward to the day when everyone gets fed up with the stalling and actually does something about the situation.
Greece has got itself into a terrible situation and I feel sorry for the average Greek who had very little if anything to do with the cause however bringing up age old problems with Turkey will not solve anything but it does give people someone to blame for their present situation. Best just accept the situation and get on with life while doing what ever you can to improve life.
Cheers
Squeaky
Glyka: And, Mesut Yilmaz is as former PM, not just a minor opposition politician
********
Yes, of course. I forgot that as soon as the coup failed, Turkish troops left the island .
Just yesterday, the Turkish Minister of European Affairs mr. Bayis said that annexing the occupied territories is a possibility. To protect them even more ...
Mesut Yilmaz has not been involved in politics for a long long time so unless you have an agenda any remarks by him should be totally ignored. However if you are looking for something to complain about you can highlight these comments as justification to waste money beefing up the Greek military. You would have to add an awful lot of beef to cope with an Army that is the largest in NATO so why even bother.
A fat lot of good it would do anyone to have guarantees of their borders when one considers how well the French and Brits did in protecting the Turk Cyps when Samson and his gang began killing Turk Cyps.
No, the Greek military did not leave Cyprus and will not for sometime – Turkey has a very large military and have to put them someplace so what better place than Cyprus where they contribute to the local economy.
Yes, there are often comments about annexing TRNC but why shouldn’t they consider the future if the Greek Cypriot authorities continue to stall and refuse to honestly negotiate to arrive at a solution. Nothing useful has been achieved since the 1970s. Whose fault is it? Well, that depends on which side of the fence one is sitting. Personally I blame the lack of progress on the Greek Cypriots and I also look forward to the day when everyone gets fed up with the stalling and actually does something about the situation.
Greece has got itself into a terrible situation and I feel sorry for the average Greek who had very little if anything to do with the cause however bringing up age old problems with Turkey will not solve anything but it does give people someone to blame for their present situation. Best just accept the situation and get on with life while doing what ever you can to improve life.
Cheers
Squeaky
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
If all the Greeks, the rich ones and ones in authority, such as lawyers, doctors, notaries, government officials, people in business and even bar/restaurant owners, paid the right amount of taxes and the tax collectors werent corrupt, and the politicians werent corrupt, pensions werent ridiculous, maybe just maybe the Greek economy would not be in such a mess.