Greek flotilla questions

[oioi]

Hi
I have some questions about Greek flotilla holidays

We are a family of four, two boys aged 4 and 7. I am worried that the boys will get bored with sailing everyday. what are the shore based activities like? Our normal holidays are a mixture of beach, cycling, site seeing and kids fun parks. i am worried that the sailing will be a bit one dimensional. Are there options to do the above or is it sailing then tavernas?


If I get frustrated with the flotilla is it acceptable to disappear and do my own thing for a few days?


The two holidays we are considering are sailing holidays northern ionian or sunsail southern ionian. We are going late July for two weeks. Any comments on either of these are welcome.

Has anyone sailed the sailing holidays dufour 32? Are the older boats still reliable and comfortable?

I have plenty of sailing experience and apart from a concern there won't be enough wind I am not concerned about the boys on a boat or the sailing side of things.

Cheers

Mike

 

[LymingtonPugwash]

Why not charter bareboat so that you can set your own daily agenda? That way you can decide how many miles you want to sail each day, or even spend the odd day ashore for a breather from sailing? There are so many islands that you can decide on a short hop or a long passage each day. Every year for some 25 years we've spent a month or two of solid sailing around Greece and the islands and rarely go to the same island twice.
However, if you're not confident enough to plan and sail alone, then go bareboat with a skipper. There are a number of good British independent charter skippers who will give you great prices. We've only chartered once, some 15 years ago when our own boat was stuck in South America and we were stuck in Europe but had a great time and were free to do our own thing whilst picking up the boat in the Dodecanese and leaving it in Athens and doing whatever we wanted in between.

As for enough wind... what with the summer meltemi, I don't think I've ever known of a windless summer in the Med!

 

[jac]

No experience of the boats/ flotilla but do have 2 young children 8 and 6.

Your 7 year old should be ok with the sailing. Things to look at/ do and they can start with simple jobs. The 4 year old may be less enamoured as harder to involve them at that age, less understanding, shorter attention span.

Keep trips short, 4 hours or so. Go to places that the kids will enjoy, sail conservatively. You'll be fine.

 

[mrplastic]

I have sailed with sailing holidays several times in both the south and north. They operate differently from other flotilla operators and it really isn't a case of follow the leader. During the morning brief you are given the destination and advised of any safety issues, weather etc. Generally you are asked to arrive at the destination by a certain time but after that it's up to you. Depend ending in your experience you may be able to go off for a few days, we did and had a few overnight stops in secluded bays completely on our own. But it is about the sailing, you can arrive early at your destination if you wish and go ashore but that rather misses the point IMHO. Anchoring in bays, swimming and snorkelling, lively venues in the evening all fill up the days and they go at light speed! I doubt anyone will be bored! When we were last out there, there was a couple of young families and they had a great time! The Sailing holidays teams are very aware of client needs and will help you work it all out.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

If you have a basic ability to handle the boat and the forecast isn't suicidal then the flotilla leader will be quite happy for you to toddle off on your own. Flotilla is a bit of a misnomer - whilst the absolute tyros do stick close until they are more capable/confident the rest of the flotilla will simply head for the same destination but may take different routes, etc. after the first day or so. I've not sailed one of their Dufour 32's but Sailing Holidays do look after their boats and re-fit them after a while as well. They turned the Jaguar 27 into a far more suitable boat for the job, Used them twice and would recommend them but also look a Neilsons - they do very good combined holidays with beach and other activities while you stay in the boat (or a hotel if you prefer).

 

[Pavalijo]

We started sailing on flotillas with our first trip in the southern Ionian with our kids aged 8 and 10. Journeys were relatively short at less than 20nm a day, but if you get a good day of wind you don't have to take the direct route.

In the school holidays the flotillas were full of kids and when we moored up "the gang" would have a great time in the water/on a beach/in the village. Night times we ate with other families as often as not (not obligatory) and the adults and kids had separate tables (orders placed by boat). Our kids (thankfully) rejected an offer of Disney in favour of sailing that first year and have never wanted to go since. They have loved every minute. The only disadvantage of going in the summer school holiday is just how busy it gets - and you will need to get into many harbours by 4pm to get a spot on the quay.

The best flotillas were the 12 boat variety as there were lots of kids of varying ages. Smaller flotillas occasionally disappointed with no kids of similar age. Our kids would have rebelled had we tried to organise activities away from "the gang", but generally you will be allowed to throw in a few "free sailing" days if you want to do something different (given that you seem to have good sailing experience).

In the Ionian in August we had several mill pond days and some good sailing days. Better winds in flotillas from Skiathos, Poros/Athens and Bodrum Turkey, but often more arduous sailing which might not be appreciated by such young sons. Personally I think that your kids might enjoy a flotilla more in a few years time, but if you are going for longer than one week perhaps you could consider the one week ashore, one week flotilla type holiday.

Sailing Holidays were the first company we used. We had an old Beneteau 32 which never missed a beat in 2 weeks. They were the only company with a 3 person lead crew - the 3rd member being an engineer who actively checked over his fleet. They offered a 2 week flotilla without a one week change over (so kids bonded after a couple of days and stayed together longer than with the one week changeover type flotilla). We haven't sailed with them since, but our experience 11 years ago was very good. They organised some activities for the kids - including a home made boat race announced a few days in advance - which led to us scavenging around villages for boat parts - I hadn't imagined raiding skips on building sites when I booked the trip!

Hope this helps,
Paul

 

[Twister_Ken]

I echo much of what Pavalijo says. If you can, check with the operator how many other kids are booked on the Flot you're interested in. The more there are, the better your sprogs will enjoy it.

Also, a flot is not a mile builder. Almost as much time is spent during the day at anchor for a lunch stop, fender surfing and jumping off of boats. At anchor, the tenders get used by the kids for boat visiting, nautical dodgems, pirates, racing.

The biggest mistake we made was going bareboat one year, so that our two had no company apart from their parents. Not a great success.

 

[yoda]

Why not consider going on a 50:50 holiday with sun sail at Vounaki where you could ensure a week of beach, dinghies, bikes sport etc in the beach club hotel and them a week of flotilla? I suspect there will be plenty of other children around at that time of year and that in it's self may help with keeping them busy. Flotilla leaders are pretty good about letting you have some freedom but they will be limited by their rules so worth asking them before you book.

Yoda

 

[duncan99210]

Never done a flotilla ourselves but often see them as we potter round the Ionian. There seem to be two distinct flotilla 'types', one composed of family groups where the parents chill either on one another's boats or in the local taverna whilst the kids seem to have a great time rumbling round the place together, the other tends to be composed of young folks aiming to have a good time on arrival, late to bed and then face a challenging morning dealing with where to go and hangovers.
For what it's worth, the best time of day for kids is late afternoon through to about midnight, as the temperature drops enough for physical activity. Greek kids are to be found out and about until late at night, along with their parents as the cooler time of the day is when they play and socialise. If you are prepared for this change in attitude (ie abandon bed times), I'm sure the kids will have a great time.
Flotillas don't seem to do enormous mileages and the flotilla leaders usually go ahead and 'book' spaces for their charges at the next port of call, thus leaving you to potter along as you feel like. We often find it necessary to get to a popular place early (say midday) to get a spot and watch the flotilla leaders arrive after us and take over a length of quay for their boats. Not complaining, you understand, just noting that this is the way it works. It's also fascinating watch the way they coach their novice crews into their berths: calm, unflappable and clear instructions given over the radio to bring a boat in whilst others of the flotilla circle outside the harbour waiting their turn. Good sport for us and a fun time for the participants.

 

[oioi]

thanks all.
We have booked, so will have to see how we get on.
Villa/Flottila options seemed a bit more pricey and as we were late booking our options were limited. Spoken to sailing holidays, they seem quite relaxed and happy for us to do our thing every once in awhile if we want to. There are some kids as well, although none quite as young as ours.
the boys are very excited, they want to go out on our boat and get some practice in

 

[mjcoon]

the boys are very excited, they want to go out on our boat and get some practice in

That's a very good sign! The more they are engaged the less chance for boredom. Or seasickness, which no-one has mentioned but I suppose could be a possibility.

Mike (veteran of many flotillas since 1974 but not with kids)

 

[nickd]

Definitely go flotilla
at that time of the year there should be other families with kids. It is anazing how quickly they form a huge gang, does not seem to matter what the age range is.
Allow them to crew other boats with their new friends this will give you some time off as well!
A few things to keep them entertained provide they are good swimmers;
In light winds trail a long warp off the back with a fender on the end, they can swim and grab hold of it.
If you have a spinnaker, tie a looped rope between the tack and clew for them to swing from, again kight winds only.
If motoring let them "ride" on the boom particularly if coming into a mooring - great to show of to their friends
Once mooered up you will be lucky if you see them
Have fun

 

[Adrian]

Pretty much agree with all above, must have done 10 Flots with Sailing Holidays as the kids were growing up, they absolutely loved it, the kids bond in the first few days and stick together all holiday.
Only thing that wound us up a bit was that Sailing Holidays are very relaxed about your sailing ability, we've been on holiday with people who's only experience of boats is a weekend on a canal boat and this showed especially coming in to harbour with one or two cringe moments!

 

[Heckler]

We started sailing on flotillas with our first trip in the southern Ionian with our kids aged 8 and 10. Journeys were relatively short at less than 20nm a day, but if you get a good day of wind you don't have to take the direct route.

In the school holidays the flotillas were full of kids and when we moored up "the gang" would have a great time in the water/on a beach/in the village. Night times we ate with other families as often as not (not obligatory) and the adults and kids had separate tables (orders placed by boat). Our kids (thankfully) rejected an offer of Disney in favour of sailing that first year and have never wanted to go since. They have loved every minute. The only disadvantage of going in the summer school holiday is just how busy it gets - and you will need to get into many harbours by 4pm to get a spot on the quay.

The best flotillas were the 12 boat variety as there were lots of kids of varying ages. Smaller flotillas occasionally disappointed with no kids of similar age. Our kids would have rebelled had we tried to organise activities away from "the gang", but generally you will be allowed to throw in a few "free sailing" days if you want to do something different (given that you seem to have good sailing experience).

In the Ionian in August we had several mill pond days and some good sailing days. Better winds in flotillas from Skiathos, Poros/Athens and Bodrum Turkey, but often more arduous sailing which might not be appreciated by such young sons. Personally I think that your kids might enjoy a flotilla more in a few years time, but if you are going for longer than one week perhaps you could consider the one week ashore, one week flotilla type holiday.

Sailing Holidays were the first company we used. We had an old Beneteau 32 which never missed a beat in 2 weeks. They were the only company with a 3 person lead crew - the 3rd member being an engineer who actively checked over his fleet. They offered a 2 week flotilla without a one week change over (so kids bonded after a couple of days and stayed together longer than with the one week changeover type flotilla). We haven't sailed with them since, but our experience 11 years ago was very good. They organised some activities for the kids - including a home made boat race announced a few days in advance - which led to us scavenging around villages for boat parts - I hadn't imagined raiding skips on building sites when I booked the trip!

Hope this helps,
Paul

A big plus one, the kids make friends and then it is play time, the day they give you to do your own destination, the kids make the decision, we dont have a choice! They all wanted to stay together! They dont get bored, trust me!
Stu

 

[Heckler]

Pretty much agree with all above, must have done 10 Flots with Sailing Holidays as the kids were growing up, they absolutely loved it, the kids bond in the first few days and stick together all holiday.
Only thing that wound us up a bit was that Sailing Holidays are very relaxed about your sailing ability, we've been on holiday with people who's only experience of boats is a weekend on a canal boat and this showed especially coming in to harbour with one or two cringe moments!

They were magical days, my family enjoyed them hugely, it was good fun watching the less skilful ones! I remember a family had a big Bene 50, mum and dad, she had a small child and a 12 ish year old son. Dad decided to put the spinny up coming out of Fiscardo! Him and son! It ended in tears with the spinny in control, half pulled down, rope around the prop, being blown towards the rocky shore. A little voice on the VHF, help, daddy is in trouble! The old Maxi with the lead crew on board was after them in a flash, got someone on board, sorted them out and towed them in to the next port south of Fiscardo and got the prop sorted, they even got another spinny for him! He didnt try that again! He told us he had done some dinghy sailing! Hmmm!
Another time there was a family with a blonde mum who used to like getting her chest out in public! They were like Rolls Royce Merlins! Much appreciated by all the daddies! SWMBOs were a bit scathing about her though!
Stu

 

[Shakemeister]

I was a flotilla skipper for Neilson some moons ago.

As other posters have commented, we would try to have a families flotilla and an adults only flotilla - I used to prefer it when we had kids - much more fun! The mate/hostess would organise a couple of competitions a week eg. tender racing, egg parachuting, build your own boat etc.

As far as sailing goes, it's not that arduous. They are usually short legs with a bay or two to moor in for lunch. It's a little known secret that people don't go on sailing holidays for the sailing - it's about the cruising, the scenery and the social. Due to predicted weather, I once had to run a leg of about 20-odd miles from Kastos to Kefallonia - some of the customer comments included "We came for a sailing holiday, not an assault course!"

With Neilson, I used to ask our boats to arrive at the next harbour no later 4pm, unless it was Fiskardo in Kefallonia. We used to refer to Sailing Holidays as 'Parking Holidays' 'cos they invariably ask their boats to be in by 2pm.

Incidentally, I sailed with Sailing Holidays a few years ago - and yes, the flotilla skipper asked for us all to be in by 2pm! I broke the rules a little bit

Oh, and remember this - the lead crew might be over the horizon but they tend to find out about little mistakes or indiscretions and you will inevitably be awarded some sort of booby prize at the end of flotilla dinner. Everyone gets one, the lead crew will make sure of that!

 

[Cardo]

I was a flotilla skipper for Neilson some moons ago.

As other posters have commented, we would try to have a families flotilla and an adults only flotilla - I used to prefer it when we had kids - much more fun! The mate/hostess would organise a couple of competitions a week eg. tender racing, egg parachuting, build your own boat etc.

As far as sailing goes, it's not that arduous. They are usually short legs with a bay or two to moor in for lunch. It's a little known secret that people don't go on sailing holidays for the sailing - it's about the cruising, the scenery and the social. Due to predicted weather, I once had to run a leg of about 20-odd miles from Kastos to Kefallonia - some of the customer comments included "We came for a sailing holiday, not an assault course!"

With Neilson, I used to ask our boats to arrive at the next harbour no later 4pm, unless it was Fiskardo in Kefallonia. We used to refer to Sailing Holidays as 'Parking Holidays' 'cos they invariably ask their boats to be in by 2pm.

Incidentally, I sailed with Sailing Holidays a few years ago - and yes, the flotilla skipper asked for us all to be in by 2pm! I broke the rules a little bit

Oh, and remember this - the lead crew might be over the horizon but they tend to find out about little mistakes or indiscretions and you will inevitably be awarded some sort of booby prize at the end of flotilla dinner. Everyone gets one, the lead crew will make sure of that!

All sounds about right to me. We went on a week's flotilla with SH a few years back to test the waters. They did ask us to be at the destination by around 2pm to make sure they could fit us all in, preferably together. This was in the southern Ionian, so the harbours did fill up. Certainly wasn't arduous sailing, though, I think we didn't do more than about 5 miles a day, apart from when we chose to take the long way round to get a bit more sailing in. But to be fair to them, it was a beginner flotilla with lots of beginner sailors, so the expectation was it would be easy.

Did make it fun watching others mooring up! Always plenty of entertainment, including the mandatory throwing coiled lines to the skipper on the quay, or throwing lines that haven't been attached to anything! We even had someone throw out their kedge anchor without attaching it to the boat! Oops!

 

[AndrewB]

I flotilla'd with Sunsail in Greece a couple of times. Regardless of what the skipper suggested, there were always a few boats which, like us, would arrive at our daily destination close to 6pm, the contractual deadline, so as to maximise sailing time. We reckoned the taverna-lovers ahead would save us places, though Fiskado was a bit of a squeeze.

To tackle another of your original questions, both times the skipper was happy for us to go our own way for a night or two. Presumably he had to be confident we knew what we were doing and were capable of catching up with the flotilla later. Try asking your charter company if they'll allow this.

 

[Cardo]

To tackle another of your original questions, both times the skipper was happy for us to go our own way for a night or two. Presumably he had to be confident we knew what we were doing and were capable of catching up with the flotilla later. Try asking your charter company if they'll allow this.

I know Sailing Holidays allow this, or at least did when we chartered a couple years back. But as you say, they need to be happy you know what you're doing. I don't think the bar is particularly high, though.

 

[zzyyxx]

I know Sailing Holidays allow this, or at least did when we chartered a couple years back. But as you say, they need to be happy you know what you're doing. I don't think the bar is particularly high, though.

Neilson seemed to positively encourage it.