Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA

[Chris_Robb]

This is the subject of many emails.

Ionian Marine is wrong re yachts hauled out where the process is by default, but correct on yachts left afloat.

The problems are because the Min of Finance will not publish for some reason the updated version of the FAQ's in which they have agreed it is out of step with the Brochure, which says "Not Liable to pay" when out of the water.

I will send a copy of Ionians email to them to show them the confusion they are creating.

BUT

There is still a major issue, in that the DEKPA definition of out of use in all circumstances, is when you have declared and handed in the papers to Port Police (or Customs in the case of TI).

I am pushing hard to get them to agree - but because this is the Ministry of Finance - they say its not part of the TEPAI and wash their hands of it. So I am now chasing the Min of Shipping and the Min of F in the hope that they will do something sensible for once.

The issue here is again one of unexpected delays in return, allowing the DEKPA to expire - when you are in a hospital with a broken hip, the last thing that is one your mind is to arrange a Agency letter in Greek and notarised in Greece by a Greek notary. So I am saying they need to change the law so that yachts are not treated like effing great tankers - for which the laws were written on the agency issue. Or they could just be sensible and allow the DEKPA to become part of the on line registration system and people should self certify.

Certainly all Marinas should amend their contracts to include an automatic Agency clause.

 

[vyv_cox]

I agree that the law has been introduced(?) in a hurry and is badly written. This us the info we have been sent:
Dear Customers,
Hello again from Leros Marina.

Please note that we have just received the information from the port police that boats that are on the dry dock are considered immobile and the owners do not need to do anything for the time being.
Only boats that are in the water will need to have their documents handled to the port police.

 

[Chris_Robb]

I agree that the law has been introduced(?) in a hurry and is badly written. This us the info we have been sent:
Dear Customers,
Hello again from Leros Marina.

Please note that we have just received the information from the port police that boats that are on the dry dock are considered immobile and the owners do not need to do anything for the time being.
Only boats that are in the water will need to have their documents handled to the port police.

Vyv - I suspect Ionian Marine have been talking to the Prevesa Port Police - who are notorious for getting it wrong.
I have suggested to the Ministry of Shipping that this is not a one off from Prevesa PP but a continuance of their badly trained officers. I have asked that they receive some training...... :disgust:

 

[Chris_Robb]

The amendments to the FAQ's will be published tomorrow on the AADE website.

Just to note - that Ionian's info came from Prevesa Port Police, who have ALREADY been informed about the changes, along with all others such as Leros.

They have promised that they will talk with the Prevesa Port Police to tell them to pull their fingers out....

I think they just might be listening... shock Horror..

 

[vyv_cox]

I think they just might be listening... shock Horror..

Come on, Chris, April 1st is well behind us.

 

[BurnitBlue]

This is the subject of many emails.

Ionian Marine is wrong re yachts hauled out where the process is by default, but correct on yachts left afloat.

The problems are because the Min of Finance will not publish for some reason the updated version of the FAQ's in which they have agreed it is out of step with the Brochure, which says "Not Liable to pay" when out of the water.

I will send a copy of Ionians email to them to show them the confusion they are creating.

BUT

There is still a major issue, in that the DEKPA definition of out of use in all circumstances, is when you have declared and handed in the papers to Port Police (or Customs in the case of TI).

I am pushing hard to get them to agree - but because this is the Ministry of Finance - they say its not part of the TEPAI and wash their hands of it. So I am now chasing the Min of Shipping and the Min of F in the hope that they will do something sensible for once.

The issue here is again one of unexpected delays in return, allowing the DEKPA to expire - when you are in a hospital with a broken hip, the last thing that is one your mind is to arrange a Agency letter in Greek and notarised in Greece by a Greek notary. So I am saying they need to change the law so that yachts are not treated like effing great tankers - for which the laws were written on the agency issue. Or they could just be sensible and allow the DEKPA to become part of the on line registration system and people should self certify.

Certainly all Marinas should amend their contracts to include an automatic Agency clause.

Well done Chris. I forwarded the Ionian Letter to the Forum for information and a possible update. I was alarmed because I had booked my flight to Preveza which lands in Thessalonka on the 29th April, smack bang during the Greek Easter. The letter made me wonder if the PP office was closed if I still had to hand in my boat registration. This would have made my flight to Preveza an effing waste of time.

I am still not clear which document is wrong, The written law or the FAQ which I always regarded as a simple explanation of the written law for lay people. ie the FAQ are not the legal document.

Anyway I certainly appreciate the effort you are making on our behalf. Good Luck.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Well done Chris. I forwarded the Ionian Letter to the Forum for information and a possible update. I was alarmed because I had booked my flight to Preveza which lands in Thessalonka on the 29th April, smack bang during the Greek Easter. The letter made me wonder if the PP office was closed if I still had to hand in my boat registration. This would have made my flight to Preveza an effing waste of time.

I am still not clear which document is wrong, The written law or the FAQ which I always regarded as a simple explanation of the written law for lay people. ie the FAQ are not the legal document.

Anyway I certainly appreciate the effort you are making on our behalf. Good Luck.

The law is not detailed on how out of use is done. It is also very vague on a number of matters, however it allows for joint ministerial decision to adjust the operation of the law. It appears that the Brochure now in 5 other languages, and the FAQ's - just Greek and English - are the way they have chosen to tell us how it will work. When that comes to how to use the On line system, now I just don't understand what it says.... And no sign of that yet....

Place your bets on a further delay.... Made more uncertain by the imminent election - it has a deadline of October but can happen any time from now.

 

[grumpygit]

Place your bets on a further delay.... Made more uncertain by the imminent election - it has a deadline of October but can happen any time from now.

My thoughts too and has been for some time now, the problem being is that Greece needs the money more than Tsipras.
I do hope the thickwit PP don't get to take charge of everybody's papers, that would be such a disaster.
I seem to remember some years ago one used to have to go to the PP to sort of or technically put the boat into bond when it went into the yard, and the reverse when it came to the splash. They just signed off/on your DEKPA and charged @ €5 a time.
I suppose the same would suffice but FOC?

 

[sailaboutvic]

What comes to mind is ,
piss up in a brewery,

 

[RichardS]

What comes to mind is ,
piss up in a brewery,

.... where nobody remembered to order any beer. :ambivalence:

Richard

 

[macd]

Brits might be best advised to mock with the greatest discretion other countries' capacity for farce.

 

[RichardS]

Brits might be best advised to mock with the greatest discretion other countries' capacity for farce.

I guess that, when it comes down to it, the only un-mockable place on Earth is God's Own Country.

Richard

 

[Monique]

Very interesting hearsay... a mate owns a 54 footer and he’s Greek. His lawyer just advised him that the fees only apply to commercial/charter boats. Will post more info as he gets more information. Obviously, he’s very interested as he cruises his home waters.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Very interesting hearsay... a mate owns a 54 footer and he’s Greek. His lawyer just advised him that the fees only apply to commercial/charter boats. Will post more info as he gets more information. Obviously, he’s very interested as he cruises his home waters.

Mike I guess his lawyer is like the rest or the Greek PP GM GSM and any other Greek Government department that has anything to do with the tax .
They haven't got a clue .

 

[Mr Cassandra]

I have a close Greek friend small yard owner in Porto Rafti and he has said the same, it is only for Greek boats ,they have to import the boat details into the government computer that crashes .
don't know anything more, other than if Vic keeps putting people off ,there will be lots more spaces to park��

 

[Chris_Robb]

Very interesting hearsay... a mate owns a 54 footer and he’s Greek. His lawyer just advised him that the fees only apply to commercial/charter boats. Will post more info as he gets more information. Obviously, he’s very interested as he cruises his home waters.

He is partially right.
There are 2 parts to the law - The tax on Cruise Ships, and the tax on Private recreation vessels. Unfortunately his lawyer forgot to read the second bit.

By the way - the FAQ's on the AADE web site have still not been corrected with a number of serious errors. So peeps are still posting and saying that in all cases you need to hand in your ships papers.....

They promised to update latest last Thursday...... So look out for it in around ..... after the 9th may - when they will announce a further delay as there is no sign yet of the On-line system. Sensibly, they will not launch without the tax being in place.... Speculation of course

 

[sailaboutvic]

I have a close Greek friend and he has said the same it is only for Greek boats ,they have to import the boat details into the government computer that crashes .
don't know anything more, other than it Vic keeps putting people off ,there will be lots more spaces to park��

Bob I am doing you all a big favour .
We now on our nine Greek boat we met that's moving away from Greece , all Greek own and all over 14 mts .
We still holding off moving away from Malta to hear if it the tax does come in but within the next few weeks we have to decide.
It does look more like it's going to be Sardinia/S France .

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Bob I am doing you all a big favour .
We now on our nine Greek boat we met that's moving away from Greece , all Greek own and all over 14 mts .
We still holding off moving away from Malta to hear if it the tax does come in but within the next few weeks we have to decide.
It does look more like it's going to be Sardinia/S France .

Bravo Vic.
I am now officially under 12 m metres, so not to worried . First man to brag about having a smaller ....

 

[Monique]

Bob I am doing you all a big favour .
We now on our nine Greek boat we met that's moving away from Greece , all Greek own and all over 14 mts .
We still holding off moving away from Malta to hear if it the tax does come in but within the next few weeks we have to decide.
It does look more like it's going to be Sardinia/S France .

Hey Vic,

My contact is a serious cruiser with good business sense and lawyers; his comments to me seem bonafide. But as you say, they are scaring lots of boats away... good old Greek bureaucracy. Cheers from NZ

JP

 

[sailaboutvic]

Bravo Vic.
I am now officially under 12 m metres, so not to worried . First man to brag about having a smaller ....

Bob we can also be under 12 mts if we want to be , I think I got one for 11.95 and the other says 12.95 but can't be bothered with playing their games .even the last DEKPA i have has 11.95 has LOL , well plain in advance just in case .
As I said before there too many other good cruising grounds in the med , plenty of interest places and country to see without paying a tax .
If the time comes when everywhere is taxing cruisers then there be no option but to pay but until them I more then happy to sail for free .