Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA

[vasant]

The reason for the large jump is that they have a significant number of voters with boats under 12 meters. It was felt that the effect on the much poorer (in general) end of the nations boaters would be too great, and that the real aim was to tax the larger end of the market. In effect this tax is a method of making the wealthier Greeks pay the tax - before they just set up an overseas company. We could say we are collateral damage.

Chris, as you know the greek residents are taxed with a "luxury" tax for any vessel above 5m. For my 40y old 28" boat that is 800Eur per year. So theTEPAI is compared to this a fair tax and i doubt therefore that anyone having a boat in GR will vote for them ever again. The government in greece is a leftist one so to some extend you are right, anyone who doesnt live in misery should in their eyes be punished. And as they know boaters wont vote them, they wont mind to &%&$# them further..... So foreign boaters are indeed collateral but not too damaged as they wont pay the big tax and most of them will take advantage from the out of use option.

 

[BurnitBlue]

discarded by BiB

 

[AndrewB]

The decision was made ate 10am uk time on Thursday. It then has to be signed into law by Ministerial decision - that will be later today (Friday). This WILL happen.

The AADE site is in Greek and English for this announcement here
https://www.aade.gr/polites/etepai

There are 4 documents - the second of each set is in English.

The changes and clarifications will take a few days to get onto them.

Was this change actually signed off, so that the start date is postponed to May 2nd? (Nothing yet on the website, or anywhere else I've looked).

 

[Chris_Robb]

Was this change actually signed off, so that the start date is postponed to May 2nd? (Nothing yet on the website, or anywhere else I've looked).

The CA was informed privately by the Min of Finance that the tax would be postponed. This has to go through an official "Joint Ministerial Signing" to enact it into law - a statutory instrument in Brexit terms.

There is always a chance that the TEPAI implementation committee has exceeded their Authority and it wont be signed - then on Monday - it will be a wonderful April Fool. I hope not, seeing as the assistant to the Minister of Finance is the Chairwoman - er person.... Egg on face if this happens.....

So no - you wont find it anywhere else.

 

[Mistroma]

I had emailed the yard in Greece to give them some warning I'd want a proper receipt covering at least April onwards out of the water. I also mentioned that locals and visitors might be worried about TEPAI and that it seemed to be difficult to pay at present.

The reply arrived today, 1st April.
>> Please see the law for the TEPAI in the attachment.
>> Of course you can prove it . We usually give a paper which write the lifting and launching date
>> of the yachts to show it to the customs and port police.
>> No one has a problem with the TEPAI. It’s usual to many countries.
>> Why is difficult to pay the TEPAI ? Everything is online .

>> * TEPAI is activated while the yachts are in the sea .
>> The months in hard storage are free . Bad for marinas but good for us !( boatyards etc)

No attachment with email to explain the law unfortunately
Easy to prove that the boat is out of the water with some paperwork. (Similar to previous years)
Of course PP etc. would be less worried about out of use when TEPAI didn't exist and wouldn't be an issue
Nobody has a problem with TEPAI and it is common in other countries
Easy to pay as everything is online

It hasn't really set my mind at rest as it hasn't even started yet. I'm amazed that nobody has mentioned any problems to the yard and that they think it is a common tax in other countries. Only similar type of tax I know of is in Croatia.

Payment looks anything but easy and I don't even think it's possible for me to pay yet. I have read the documents on AADE (https://www.aade.gr/polites/etepai) and nothing about it looks simple or easy.

Fingers crossed that the delay Chris mentioned will be announced soon. It will be easier to sort out if I can be afloat in Greece before it kicks in.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Delay just Announced as 9th May. Obviously software not ready yet.


Place your bets on a further delay.

 

[Mistroma]

Delay just Announced as 9th May. Obviously software not ready yet.


Place your bets on a further delay.

Thanks Chris, update much appreciated. I've booked lift-in for 1st May and that will give some breathing space to sort things out.

 

[BurnitBlue]

Even if the delay was until 31st May according to the law the tax would still be valid for the whole month. I don't care one way or the other but this nibbling away at the start date, like a little mouse, is laughable.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Even if the delay was until 31st May according to the law the tax would still be valid for the whole month. I don't care one way or the other but this nibbling away at the start date, like a little mouse, is laughable.

The whole thing is laughable , I think they taken a leave out of our(brits) book .

 

[Mistroma]

I checked https://www.aade.gr/polites/etepai earlier and did see the official announcement "The entry into force of the Recreational and Daily Tour Cruise Ships Fee (TEPAI) is shifted in May 09, 2019".

Nice to see the delay published now, thanks for the early heads up Chris.

 

[sailaboutvic]

This new date will help Many out , it give tho time to get back to Greece and pay or leave although the message seen to be on the ground that may with boats over 12 mts are leaving Greece for Turkey, Croatia and even going back west .
we can only hope that Greece get hit hard enough to make them think again about their tax when it come to non Greek boat or at less the different between 12< 12> .

 

[jordanbasset]

As we are flying back on the 8/5 this is good news

 

[Garold]

As we are flying back on the 8/5 this is good news

Same here, and same sense of relief.

Gatwick - Preveza 0605?

Garold

 

[jordanbasset]

Same here, and same sense of relief.

Gatwick - Preveza 0605?

Garold

Yes one less thing to worry about
Manchester Preveza 1550

 

[grumpygit]

This new date will help Many out , it give tho time to get back to Greece and pay or leave although the message seen to be on the ground that may with boats over 12 mts are leaving Greece for Turkey, Croatia and even going back west .
we can only hope that Greece get hit hard enough to make them think again about their tax when it come to non Greek boat or at less the different between 12< 12> .

IMHO it won't effect Greece at all. OK some like yourself will vote with their keels but it won't effect such as the various charter and sailing school business's and that's where the bums on seats, bodies in berths are. This is greatly where most of the income is for the local business's comes from.
And of course there will be the people who will be quite willing to pay the tax because they think sailing the Greek waters is worth the extra expense.
We may be void of the Italian and French summer onslaught, so possibly every cloud does have a silver lining.

 

[sailaboutvic]

IMHO it won't effect Greece at all. OK some like yourself will vote with their keels but it won't effect such as the various charter and sailing school business's and that's where the bums on seats, bodies in berths are. This is greatly where most of the income is for the local business's comes from.
And of course there will be the people who will be quite willing to pay the tax because they think sailing the Greek waters is worth the extra expense.
We may be void of the Italian and French summer onslaught, so possibly every cloud does have a silver lining.

You may say that but local businesses like chandlers , food shops and even the small islands where charters don't get too and remember come oct / May there very few charters if any in some places . My comments come from talking to liveaboard as well as our sailing friends from over the world , most had plain to spend at less a year others two or three , so I being told time and time again these same people are now going else where or at the very less only going to spend a few months ,
I can only guess if this is the message from a group of around 30 boats what the big picture reLly going to be like .
Offcause only time will tell ,
As for the illusion that Greece is the only place in the Med that give good valve for money , it may had been once but no more .
But hey it's nothing out of my pocket because as you rightly said , I happy to vote with my keel and visit some really great places the med has to offer .

 

[Chris_Robb]

I checked https://www.aade.gr/polites/etepai earlier and did see the official announcement "The entry into force of the Recreational and Daily Tour Cruise Ships Fee (TEPAI) is shifted in May 09, 2019".

Nice to see the delay published now, thanks for the early heads up Chris.

You should have seen April fools allegations on Facebook.

They should be letting me see the online system before it goes live...... will wait with bated breath!

 

[Crisby]

IMHO it won't effect Greece at all. OK some like yourself will vote with their keels but it won't effect such as the various charter and sailing school business's and that's where the bums on seats, bodies in berths are. This is greatly where most of the income is for the local business's comes from.
And of course there will be the people who will be quite willing to pay the tax because they think sailing the Greek waters is worth the extra expense.
We may be void of the Italian and French summer onslaught, so possibly every cloud does have a silver lining.

I must admit as an owner of a 12.5m boat I’m a bit p##sed off by the tax but will pay it this year as it has been a 20 year dream to spend a year cruising in Greece and our son is out there again this year as a flott engineer so it will be nice (for us anyway) to catch up with him on a regular basis.

Next year, however, if the tax still has the big mark up over 12m we will probably explore elsewhere.

Of course all of our plans may change anyway if we are restricted to 90 days, a double whammy for the Greeks, yes the charterers bring in most of the money but the yards and chandlers will lose out as most charterers won’t be spending money there.

Chris

 

[sailaboutvic]

This Is just for them who keep saying , where else other then Greece can you sail .
Croatia 2019 tax ... boat 12 to 15 mts one year tax 4200Kuna in euros ???? Work it out guys but I can tell you it's less then €1248 pa for a 13 mts boat

 

[Garold]

This Is just for them who keep saying , where else other then Greece can you sail .
Croatia 2019 tax ... boat 12 to 15 mts one year tax 4200Kuna in euros ???? Work it out guys but I can tell you it's less then €1248 pa for a 13 mts boat

This is what’s ironic about the Greek cruising tax. They copied a faulty model. And for some yachts it will now be significantly cheaper in tax to cruise in Croatia than Greece.

Given the similarities with the 2018 Croatian cruising tax, the Greeks obviously looked at Croatia, decided that they would like a chunk of this seemingly easily collected tax revenue, and copied large parts of it. (But obviously didn’t look to deeply into how tax payers would make their payments!).

What they didn’t realise was that the Croatian tax was not working properly and the Croatians were in the process of reducing the tax on some of the length bands because larger yachts were leaving Croatia to cruise elsewhere.

Whilst I feel sympathy for those with boats >12m who may now change their Greek cruising plans, I will have no sympathy with the Greek govt when some of the cruising yachts move elsewhere and their overall revenue dips.

The introduction of this tax so far has only caused anxiety and concern especially amongst non Greeks with yachts in Greece. It’s a strange way to treat a significant source of income in the islands.

Garold