Greece warning

Kalamata town and Messinia surrounds.

Less road traffic.
Carrefour, Lidl quiet, parking areas only half as many as usual.
Practika (B&Q equivalent) only half manned, empty car park.
No Queues at petrol/diesel pumps.
Cash machines busy, lots of grumbling about having to visit once a day every day to keep alive
No problem cashing €500 on my non-Greek Euro account

Infra-structure work halted for over 3 weeks on biggish road project. Half a dozen bulldozers and more load carriers all standing idle, big pile driver too. All that capital going to waste 'cos they can't pay the wages. Don't know whether that was local government or central government not paying the contractors . . .
 
Well, Jim, I've heard word on the street that the Kalamata area roads are a bit of a hot potato. According to rumour the only reason for the wonderful new Athens-Kalamata road is because of a former MP and Minister, whose name I can't remember, who came from the area and helped siphon funds to that road project. That may or may not be true. Of course, he lost his seat in the election.

It has caused a lot of ill-feeling when the main Patras-Athens road is unfinished and in such a terrible state (and I suspect that is because of funds being siphoned somewhere else as well...)

Unfortunately it's very common for workers and contractors not to get paid nowadays. They keep going for a while but eventually of course they stop.
 
maxi77 said:
One clear problem is if your suppliers demand cash and the banks are closed the only source of that cash is customers.

I for one would be wary of taking plastic in one currency that may be arbitrarily changed to another currency at an unkown rate before i can get my hands on it.
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maxi77 said:
One clear problem is if your suppliers demand cash and the banks are closed the only source of that cash is customers.

Arrived argostoli 4 days ago from italy,and,apart from steady queue 5 or 6 deep at the cash point till the money runs out, all seems relaxed.
Now in eufimia and much the same. I guess on the islands life will go on regardless. Well, at long as tourist keep arriving clutching Euros. . . .
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I did cover myself by taking out an extra €600 at the beginning of last week - I still haven't started on it.
However, I have told everyone, before a transaction (of any size) that I can only pay by credit card. Amazing how many have found they can do it now.
 
Things may be going bad on a wider scale. We heard yesterday of three separate businesses that are running out of stock, not because they don't have money but because they cannot transfer it to their suppliers. The marina chandlery at Lakki relies heavily on being supplied equipment from Athens but this is currently not possible. One of the two delicatessens in the town is apparently in quite a serious position for the same reason and the proprietor's health has suffered as a consequence. There seem to be no replacement gas bottles on the island although 100 have been ordered.
 
vyv_cox said:
Things may be going bad on a wider scale. We heard yesterday of three separate businesses that are running out of stock, not because they don't have money but because they cannot transfer it to their suppliers. The marina chandlery at Lakki relies heavily on being supplied equipment from Athens but this is currently not possible. One of the two delicatessens in the town is apparently in quite a serious position for the same reason and the proprietor's health has suffered as a consequence. There seem to be no replacement gas bottles on the island although 100 have been ordered.
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Probably has more to do with being on one of the Aegean islands, than with lack of bank transfers as intimated. If you remember the Aegean islands were about to lose their special reduced-VAT status which would affect those suppliers who have to do their VAT returns.
I've just ordered €320-worth of electrics, arriving in Kalamata from Athens on Monday (by invoice-bearing courier) - and with the Petrogaz filling line just down the road...
As they say, location is all....
 
charles_reed said:
I did cover myself by taking out an extra €600 at the beginning of last week - I still haven't started on it.
However, I have told everyone, before a transaction (of any size) that I can only pay by credit card. Amazing how many have found they can do it now.
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Don't forget that if you pay a Greek by credit card he can't get his hands on his money because the banks are closed. So don't be surprised if some smaller traders claim they can't take your card (even though they can) because they desperately need hard cash to keep their business running. Not all Greeks are greedy nor trying to cheat the system and at the moment many of them are trying to feed their families and keep their business alive.
 
Tony Cross said:
Don't forget that if you pay a Greek by credit card he can't get his hands on his money because the banks are closed. So don't be surprised if some smaller traders claim they can't take your card (even though they can) because they desperately need hard cash to keep their business running. Not all Greeks are greedy nor trying to cheat the system and at the moment many of them are trying to feed their families and keep their business alive.
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My need is as least as great as theirs - can't buy from anyone who can't take a credit card. Whilst banks are closed for cash withdrawals, the credit transfer system is working as usual - so I'd consider your argument pretty specious. All of those traders, to whom you refer, have, without exception, loads of € notes...
Where do you think all those withdrawals have been going?
 
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charles_reed said:
My need is as least as great as theirs - can't buy from anyone who can't take a credit card. Whilst banks are closed for cash withdrawals, the credit transfer system is working as usual - so I'd consider your argument pretty specious. All of those traders, to whom you refer, have, without exception, loads of € notes...
Where do you think all those withdrawals have been going?

sailaboutvic said:
That's a good point , there must be hundreds of thousands under people beds
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Don't forget that you are a guest in Greece, it matters not that the EU allows you free movement you are still a foreigner in their country. As such you are the one who needs to accommodate them, not the other way round. If your way of life requires you to always use a credit card then may I respectfully suggest that Greece is probably not the right place for you at present?

Your assumption that "all of those traders, to whom you refer, have, without exception, loads of € notes..." is exactly that, an assumption. Have you personally checked under all their beds? Or even one of their beds? No of course not, you're just trotting out the standard line, I'm sure you don't have the first inking of what it's like to run a small shop here, and for the record I know two small shopkeepers here quite well. They don't have cash under their beds because their suppliers require cash as well, precisely because they can't get cash out of the banks! When the shelves start to look empty customers stop coming in, it's a positive feedback loop and your demand to use your credit card just makes that worse.

vyv_cox said:
We were told last night that €80 billion has been withdrawn in cash in the past few weeks. There is some evidence of panic buying in Lakki, where supermarkets are unable to restock.
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If the UK were to declare that UK banks were closing for just one day I can pretty much guarantee that every shelf in every supermarket would be empty by lunchtime. The British are excellent panic buyers, by comparison the Greeks are being quite reserved. I have no idea where the alleged €80 billion has gone but I'd strongly suspect that much of it has come from the accounts of the very rich and it's now sitting in a foreign bank - it would make for an awfully lumpy mattress. The vast majority of Greeks have nothing like enough cash in their bank accounts after 5 years of job losses, pension and salary cuts, VAT rises and the like. Witness the mad scramble by pensioners on Wednesday when the banks opened temporarily for those who have no bank card, all they wanted was €120. Do you really think they have thousands stuffed under a mattress?
 
While there's uncertainty, specialist imports by small businesses will suffer, even from the €uro zone. No one will be sending goods on account - unless the buyer is already in credit, or there's a pipeline for payment outside the Greek banking system.

So, watch for a run on Fray Bentos stocks and Marmite
 
Tony Cross said:
Don't forget that you are a guest in Greece, it matters not that the EU allows you free movement you are still a foreigner in their country. As such you are the one who needs to accommodate them, not the other way round. If your way of life requires you to always use a credit card then may I respectfully suggest that Greece is probably not the right place for you at present?

Your assumption that "all of those traders, to whom you refer, have, without exception, loads of € notes..." is exactly that, an assumption. Have you personally checked under all their beds? Or even one of their beds? No of course not, you're just trotting out the standard line, I'm sure you don't have the first inking of what it's like to run a small shop here, and for the record I know two small shopkeepers here quite well. They don't have cash under their beds because their suppliers require cash as well, precisely because they can't get cash out of the banks! When the shelves start to look empty customers stop coming in, it's a positive feedback loop and your demand to use your credit card just makes that worse.



If the UK were to declare that UK banks were closing for just one day I can pretty much guarantee that every shelf in every supermarket would be empty by lunchtime. The British are excellent panic buyers, by comparison the Greeks are being quite reserved. I have no idea where the alleged €80 billion has gone but I'd strongly suspect that much of it has come from the accounts of the very rich and it's now sitting in a foreign bank - it would make for an awfully lumpy mattress. The vast majority of Greeks have nothing like enough cash in their bank accounts after 5 years of job losses, pension and salary cuts, VAT rises and the like. Witness the mad scramble by pensioners on Wednesday when the banks opened temporarily for those who have no bank card, all they wanted was €120. Do you really think they have thousands stuffed under a mattress?
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My god Tony you and one other very nice person really need to chill a bit more , no one can say anything about greece without you both taken it very personal , I sure it very hard for the small shop keeper in these times of uncertainty , but on the other hand you can't tell me or any one else that these billions of euros that have been removed have just gone from a greec back to another one , there no doubt thousand are hiding .
 
sailaboutvic said:
My god Tony you and one other very nice person really need to chill a bit more , no one can say anything about greece without you both taken it very personal , I sure it very hard for the small shop keeper in these times of uncertainty , but on the other hand you can't tell me or any one else that these billions of euros that have been removed have just gone from a greec back to another one , there no doubt thousand are hiding .
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I'd love to chill but it's pretty warm here now. :)

I object to all Greeks being lumped together as crooks and cheats. I'm sure there are people who have taken as much of their money out of the banks as they can, wouldn't you in this situation? But to suggest that every Greek has thousands stuffed under their mattress is rubbish. You know well I'm sure that Greece, like the UK, contains a few rich people and an awful lot of ordinary people who have enough to get by. As I said earlier the majority of ordinary Greeks have been living off their savings for years since austerity started to bite, their bank accounts are already pretty empty. The rich of course have made sure their money is safe, and I find it hard to blame them either. At times like these normal rules don't really apply.

But to get back to the original point. I don't doubt many Greeks have withdrawn their savings and have the cash stashed away, but I very much doubt that any of them are small shopkeepers. As an example, the clothing shop SWMBO was in today was offering a discount to customers who would pay by cash instead of credit card because they have no cash to buy the next lot of stock. Whilst SWMBO was there one customer asked to pay by card and the owner offered her a cash discount if only she'd walk a few yards to the nearest ATM and get out the cash.
 
Tony Cross said:
If the UK were to declare that UK banks were closing for just one day I can pretty much guarantee that every shelf in every supermarket would be empty by lunchtime. The British are excellent panic buyers, by comparison the Greeks are being quite reserved. I have no idea where the alleged €80 billion has gone but I'd strongly suspect that much of it has come from the accounts of the very rich and it's now sitting in a foreign bank - it would make for an awfully lumpy mattress. The vast majority of Greeks have nothing like enough cash in their bank accounts after 5 years of job losses, pension and salary cuts, VAT rises and the like. Witness the mad scramble by pensioners on Wednesday when the banks opened temporarily for those who have no bank card, all they wanted was €120. Do you really think they have thousands stuffed under a mattress?
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Don't shoot the messenger! :) I am simply reporting what I have been told by Greek-speaking residents of the island.
 
I have a very serious confession to make, every time I nip down to our local supermarket for a couple of ice cream cones I always wonder which flavour to buy, chocolate and strawberry usually go down well, so I tend to buy them, anyway, right at the bottom of the next freezer I can see a box, I know whats in the box but I think I will pick it up next week. After listening to tales of gloom and doom, the thought of possible panic buying entered my head, would somebody get the box before I did, would I get there and it was gone? Sod that, I jumped on the trusty twist and go and bought the box, it was the last one, so now I have it! no one else can buy it! a 5 Kilo box of English sausages, be there and be first:)
 
Davy_S said:
I have a very serious confession to make, every time I nip down to our local supermarket for a couple of ice cream cones I always wonder which flavour to buy, chocolate and strawberry usually go down well, so I tend to buy them, anyway, right at the bottom of the next freezer I can see a box, I know whats in the box but I think I will pick it up next week. After listening to tales of gloom and doom, the thought of possible panic buying entered my head, would somebody get the box before I did, would I get there and it was gone? Sod that, I jumped on the trusty twist and go and bought the box, it was the last one, so now I have it! no one else can buy it! a 5 Kilo box of English sausages, be there and be first:)
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:)

If the excreta hits the extraction apparatus I think you'll find the sausages more useful than the ice cream!
 
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