Greece and the Unlimited Transit Log - news from the CA

[Chris_Robb]

The CA has just announced that the Shipping Ministry has changed the law on Checking In and Out for the Unlimited Transit Log (UTL) . You used to have to (theoretically) check in AND out of every port you visited.

Following pressure by the CA on the new(ish) shipping minister, a small but significant change in the law has been made.

If you are holding a UTL - you NO LONGER need to check in and out of each port you visit.

You still will have to check out of Greece and check in on returning.

There is NO CHANGE to the requirement for ordinary (NON VAT PAID) TLs (LTL) - you still need to check in and out. This of course is carried out to the letter in some parts of Greece and others - like the Ionian - are very relaxed.
Remember that when you lay up a LTL yacht , you must deposit the TL with Port Police. This stops you going over the 6 months time limit for a non EU resident which with would of course create a residency and tax liability - which is not allowed on a LTL.

Anyone who is VAT Paid status but was issued incorrectly with a Limited Transit log, should go to customs with his Proof of Vat and ask them to upgrade the TL. You may of course be faced with the issue of proving vat has never been refunded. You need to appeal to the AADE or Join the CA and get them to speak out for you. It is of course impossible for a private yacht to get a refund of VAT unde4r any circumstances. The CA is still working on this - and it is by no means universal in Greece - mainly Dodecanese islands and Crete. The rest seem to be quite capable of understanding the Union Customs Code and are doing the right thing. Preveza is particularly good with Stavros Pivlades . But don't ask if you don't need one - ie you have been in Greece since Brexit day. Stavros will say you dont need any TL of and sort and will not give you one.

Changing slowly!

 

[Mr Cassandra]

The CA has just announced that the Shipping Ministry has changed the law on Checking In and Out for the Unlimited Transit Log (UTL) . You used to have to (theoretically) check in AND out of every port you visited.

Following pressure by the CA on the new(ish) shipping minister, a small but significant change in the law has been made.

If you are holding a UTL - you NO LONGER need to check in and out of each port you visit.

You still will have to check out of Greece and check in on returning.

There is NO CHANGE to the requirement for ordinary (NON VAT PAID) TLs (LTL) - you still need to check in and out. This of course is carried out to the letter in some parts of Greece and others - like the Ionian - are very relaxed.
Remember that when you lay up a LTL yacht , you must deposit the TL with Port Police. This stops you going over the 6 months time limit for a non EU resident which with would of course create a residency and tax liability - which is not allowed on a LTL.

Anyone who is VAT Paid status but was issued incorrectly with a Limited Transit log, should go to customs with his Proof of Vat and ask them to upgrade the TL. You may of course be faced with the issue of proving vat has never been refunded. You need to appeal to the AADE or Join the CA and get them to speak out for you. It is of course impossible for a private yacht to get a refund of VAT unde4r any circumstances. The CA is still working on this - and it is by no means universal in Greece - mainly Dodecanese islands and Crete. The rest seem to be quite capable of understanding the Union Customs Code and are doing the right thing. Preveza is particularly good with Stavros Pivlades . But don't ask if you don't need one - ie you have been in Greece since Brexit day. Stavros will say you dont need any TL of and sort and will not give you one.

Changing slowly!

Excellent news, thanks

 

[Mr Cassandra]

The CA has just announced that the Shipping Ministry has changed the law on Checking In and Out for the Unlimited Transit Log (UTL) . You used to have to (theoretically) check in AND out of every port you visited.

Following pressure by the CA on the new(ish) shipping minister, a small but significant change in the law has been made.

If you are holding a UTL - you NO LONGER need to check in and out of each port you visit.

You still will have to check out of Greece and check in on returning.

There is NO CHANGE to the requirement for ordinary (NON VAT PAID) TLs (LTL) - you still need to check in and out. This of course is carried out to the letter in some parts of Greece and others - like the Ionian - are very relaxed.
Remember that when you lay up a LTL yacht , you must deposit the TL with Port Police. This stops you going over the 6 months time limit for a non EU resident which with would of course create a residency and tax liability - which is not allowed on a LTL.

Anyone who is VAT Paid status but was issued incorrectly with a Limited Transit log, should go to customs with his Proof of Vat and ask them to upgrade the TL. You may of course be faced with the issue of proving vat has never been refunded. You need to appeal to the AADE or Join the CA and get them to speak out for you. It is of course impossible for a private yacht to get a refund of VAT unde4r any circumstances. The CA is still working on this - and it is by no means universal in Greece - mainly Dodecanese islands and Crete. The rest seem to be quite capable of understanding the Union Customs Code and are doing the right thing. Preveza is particularly good with Stavros Pivlades . But don't ask if you don't need one - ie you have been in Greece since Brexit day. Stavros will say you dont need any TL of and sort and will not give you one.

Changing slowly!

Hi Chris, I think many people were swayed into getting a Limited transit log ,by the famous book writers wife Lucinda.
She posted on a Greek Facebook page to do so ,I offered your explanation why you shouldn't, unfortunately as Mrs Cassandra would say no one listens.
Again thank you for years of great service.
IBobt.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Hi Chris, I think many people were swayed into getting a Limited transit log ,by the famous book writers wife Lucinda.
She posted on a Greek Facebook page to do so ,I offered your explanation why you shouldn't, unfortunately as Mrs Cassandra would say no one listens.
Again thank you for years of great service.
IBobt.

I spoke with lucinda about this a Year ago. I hope this was not a recent posting.

Basically this kind of I fo has been the cause of half the problems when the official are confronted with English asking for things the don't need. The result is they think this is correct and start demanding it. It's not as if the CA did not publish quite clearly in the very early days details of the regulations....

I find Med Saling aplace of bad manners , people who always know better, and everything unpleasant about sailing.....

I have just signed off as its just rubbish to read.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

I spoke with lucinda about this a Year ago. I hope this was not a recent posting.

Basically this kind of I fo has been the cause of half the problems when the official are confronted with English asking for things the don't need. The result is they think this is correct and start demanding it. It's not as if the CA did not publish quite clearly in the very early days details of the regulations....

I find Med Saling aplace of bad manners , people who always know better, and everything unpleasant about sailing.....

I have just signed off as its just rubbish to read.

Yes probably ,It was ln Nafpilio, there was a boat flying a CA flag I got the owner to contact you .

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Hi Chris, I think many people were swayed into getting a Limited transit log ,by the famous book writers wife Lucinda.
She posted on a Greek Facebook page to do so ,I offered your explanation why you shouldn't, unfortunately as Mrs Cassandra would say no one listens.
She had a right go at me for challenging her perceived authority.

IBobt.

 

[jonrarit]

Good news, we have sucessfully upgraded our limited transit log to unlimited yesterday in the preveza. It did take a couple of days and had to show the ownership history of the boat and boat location since brexit to convince them that the tax had never been reclaimed. All in all not a difficult process and absolutely free if charge too!!!

 

[photon]

Apologies from a brain severely addled by 34+Celcius.
Kalamata Customs want to see me tomorrow. Our boat was in Greece on December 31st 2020. She is VAT paid UK , I have both a Uk and Irish Passport and my understanding is the the boat will be treated as Full Union VAT Paid and does not require a Transit Log of any kind
I have read for the past three hours on this and find quite conflicting statements suggesting it is necessary to have either ;

1 An unlimited Transit Log
2 No Transit log necessary

If I am to be engaged in debate with Greek Customs It would be useful if anyone can give me a definitive steer on this.Thanks in advance

 

[Chris_Robb]

Apologies from a brain severely addled by 34+Celcius.
Kalamata Customs want to see me tomorrow. Our boat was in Greece on December 31st 2020. She is VAT paid UK , I have both a Uk and Irish Passport and my understanding is the the boat will be treated as Full Union VAT Paid and does not require a Transit Log of any kind
I have read for the past three hours on this and find quite conflicting statements suggesting it is necessary to have either ;

1 An unlimited Transit Log
2 No Transit log necessary

If I am to be engaged in debate with Greek Customs It would be useful if anyone can give me a definitive steer on this.Thanks in advance

If you have never left Greece, and ALL your paperwork is in order, invoice, chain of ownership and proof that you were in the EU, (in your case in Greece) you don't need a transit log. However if you do not have proof from say your marina, the you were there you may be stuffed.

If they insist that you have the UTL, that is now OK to get, as it notes their acceptance of your vat status. As from April you no longer need to check in and out of every port., thus is now be useful document especially if you are planning a trip to Turkey.

Do not get the limited TL.

Why are you going to customs. Did you ask? In which case you need a brain surgeon!

 

[photon]

I did not ask to see anyone, of course, why would one?

I was asked by the Harbour Authorities for the TL and then told to visit the Customs office thereafter.

Others, it seems, have been directed in the same way by the Port Authority of Kalamata.

I just wonder if this is directed at yachts mooring in the commercial harbour and choosing not to use the Marina to the west, a little administrative hassle making it " more convenient" to use the Marina. It seems to me to have the scent of local politics at play.

 

[Chris_Robb]

I did not ask to see anyone, of course, why would one?

I was asked by the Harbour Authorities for the TL and then told to visit the Customs office thereafter.

Others, it seems, have been directed in the same way by the Port Authority of Kalamata.

I just wonder if this is directed at yachts mooring in the commercial harbour and choosing not to use the Marina to the west, a little administrative hassle making it " more convenient" to use the Marina. It seems to me to have the scent of local politics at play.

Why would one ask? Well you would surprised how many people do. The otherwise is just to ignore the PP and if only staying a day, just leave.

I really dont think it's trying to direct you to the marinas, it's just so many people have asked the pp and customs for the TL etc they they themselves have been confused bu US!

 

[Hooligan]

I agree with Chris. I stayed in Kalamata marina for a couple of days the last two years. I had no TL at all as I took view I didn’t need one. Someone mumbled about the port police and I just ignored. If they come to your boat then address their issues. If they do not then do not go and seek them. You seem to have all the paperwork so there should be no issues anyway. Given what you have if I were you I would go get a UTL anyway which solves all potential issues.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Golden rule: If port police come near - Turn your back on them or go down below - and certainly dont make eye contact with them. I found that if you just ignore them, they move onto the next.
off course some may insist - in the past we have just ignored them and waited for a least the 3rd request to come in - by that time - next day - you are leaving anyway - job done.

 

[Seven Spades]

Good news, we have sucessfully upgraded our limited transit log to unlimited yesterday in the preveza. It did take a couple of days and had to show the ownership history of the boat and boat location since brexit to convince them that the tax had never been reclaimed. All in all not a difficult process and absolutely free if charge too!!!

I don't understand why you have to show them the location of the boat since BREXIT. EU Vat paid boats are free to travel in and out of the EU and not lose thair VAT paid status provided that they return within three years of leaving.

 

[Tranona]

I don't understand why you have to show them the location of the boat since BREXIT. EU Vat paid boats are free to travel in and out of the EU and not lose thair VAT paid status provided that they return within three years of leaving.

If you follow this saga the Greek authorities have their own way of using the rules and there is a conflict between their local law on transit logs and EU VAT rules which has largely been resolved. This is an example of where the resolution has worked.

 

[Seven Spades]

I have been following it, but this still does not make any sense. What if the boat has visited Turkey or Montenegro are they going to deny a UTL? As soon as the boat returns to EU waters RGR immediately kicks in, it is automatic.

 

[Hooligan]

I have been following it, but this still does not make any sense. What if the boat has visited Turkey or Montenegro are they going to deny a UTL? As soon as the boat returns to EU waters RGR immediately kicks in, it is automatic.

I am afraid that while your understanding of EU rules is correct but your understanding of what is happening in Greece is zero. Given you are needing something from the Greeks best recommendation I can give is understand what the issues you are going to face in Greece and deal with those. The above is not going to get you anywhere. I can tell you right now that if your boat was in the EU on Brexit day but subsequently you went to Turkey, then your chances of getting a UTL on arrival into Greece are slim to none. Unless you can prove the boat was not only in the EU but also that it is U.K. VAT paid AND that vat has not ever been reclaimed. The only thing they will accept is a letter from HMRC which if you have already got great, if not you will not get anymore from HMRC. If you are entering Greece from another EU country having been to Turkey in the meantime I would suggest that you omit this bit of the puzzle.

 

[Seven Spades]

My boat was in the EU on Brexit day and is UK VAT paid and there was one previous owner a private individual. Since then then the boat has been to Ireland, Scotland, France, Portugal and Spain and the Balearics. I don't have a letter from HMRC but my boat is EU VAT paid status.

 

[Hooligan]

My boat was in the EU on Brexit day and is UK VAT paid and there was one previous owner a private individual. Since then then the boat has been to Ireland, Scotland, France, Portugal and Spain and the Balearics. I don't have a letter from HMRC but my boat is EU VAT paid status.

It very well may be EU VAT paid status in the eyes of everyone. Trouble for you is that for the Greeks it is likely to not be enough. My personal advice is to stop focussing on what you think the boat is, start focussing on what the Greeks think it is and then sort for what the Greeks want. Or else enter with a limited transit log.

 

[Nickel]

Does anyone have a link to an official announcement on this from the Greek Government? We are checking in at Chios, and the Customs lady is willing to be helpful, but hasn't heard of this announcement and isn't going to issue a UTL based on a CA press release. We're going back to see her later today.