Greece and the Unlimited Transit Log - news from the CA

[Seven Spades]

I am confused by your post. The CA has said if you hold a UTL you don't need to check in and out at every port. If you hold a LTL then you do. There is nothing in the press release about the issuance of transit logs.

 

[Irish Rover]

I am confused by your post. The CA has said if you hold a UTL you don't need to check in and out at every port. If you hold a LTL then you do. There is nothing in the press release about the issuance of transit logs.

Checking in at Chios suggests arriving from Türkiye - I don't know enough about the UTL procedure to comment further but maybe someone who does can advise him.

 

[Nickel]

I don't think my post was that confusing. We were checking in yesterday at Chios from Turkey. We have a UK flagged, EU VAT paid boat, but this is its first time in Greece. The very nice Customs Lady was interested in the CA press release but hadn't received any guidance, so she gave us a partially completed transit log and asked me to email the CA press release to her and her colleagues and come back tomorrow (now today). We did and they had obviously consulted their new guidance and amended the transit log given yesterday so that it is an unlimited transit log. Not confusing. But shows professionalism and helpfulness in the Customs Authorities. We were very impressed.

 

[Irish Rover]

I don't think my post was that confusing. We were checking in yesterday at Chios from Turkey. We have a UK flagged, EU VAT paid boat, but this is its first time in Greece. The very nice Customs Lady was interested in the CA press release but hadn't received any guidance, so she gave us a partially completed transit log and asked me to email the CA press release to her and her colleagues and come back tomorrow (now today). We did and they had obviously consulted their new guidance and amended the transit log given yesterday so that it is an unlimited transit log. Not confusing. But shows professionalism and helpfulness in the Customs Authorities. We were very impressed.

I've always found the Greek customs excellent to deal with.

 

[Hooligan]

I don't think my post was that confusing. We were checking in yesterday at Chios from Turkey. We have a UK flagged, EU VAT paid boat, but this is its first time in Greece. The very nice Customs Lady was interested in the CA press release but hadn't received any guidance, so she gave us a partially completed transit log and asked me to email the CA press release to her and her colleagues and come back tomorrow (now today). We did and they had obviously consulted their new guidance and amended the transit log given yesterday so that it is an unlimited transit log. Not confusing. But shows professionalism and helpfulness in the Customs Authorities. We were very impressed.

How did the boat get to Turkey without going through Greece if I might ask? Also slightly confused as the CA press release relates to the issue of checking in and out of every port if one has a UTL rather than the acquisition of a UTL. No matter the fact you got one is very good. I would be interested in what proof they accepted that the boat was VAT paid as that has been the real issue.

 

[Nickel]

Through the French Canals, Rhine, Main, MDK, Danube to Constanta. Been sailing the Black Sea and then down to the Aegean. The CA press release is also (and firstly) about the fact that a British boat with EU VAT paid status is entitled to a UTL on arrival, not an 18 month TL. Then it clarified that with a UTL you don't need to check in and out of every port. We have the original receipt when we bought the boat second hand showing UK VAT paid in 2010. Then we have a certificate of attendance in the boatyard in Carentan for the winter of 2020. We also had proof that she has been in EU boatyards each winter since but that was unnecessary.

 

[dorado33]

I've always found the Greek customs excellent to deal with.

The customs and Port Authority in Agios Nikolaos are a nightmare.
They make no difference if you are a pre-Brexit EU VAT paid boat or post.
As far as they are concerned they insist All U.K. boats must have a TL.
The Port Authority too have started a latest trend of " you sailed mote than 6nm from Crete into International Waters without a Transit Log so we are going to fine you...( in one instance 1,500 euros... another 600)...both these boats were pre Brexit U.K. Vat paid, with all the supporting documents....
I have emailed Christos Lamprou many times about this but he keeps saying we retain our EU character if we were pre-Brexit EU ( & U.K) VAT paid etc and only lose that status when we leave the EU. On return, if same details and within 3 years a UTL would be issued. However, thus far he ends every email by saying see your local Competent Authority.
The issue is they are not competent and indeed corrupt !
I shall try the British Embassy next !

 

[Hooligan]

The customs and Port Authority in Agios Nikolaos are a nightmare.
They make no difference if you are a pre-Brexit EU VAT paid boat or post.
As far as they are concerned they insist All U.K. boats must have a TL.
The Port Authority too have started a latest trend of " you sailed mote than 6nm from Crete into International Waters without a Transit Log so we are going to fine you...( in one instance 1,500 euros... another 600)...both these boats were pre Brexit U.K. Vat paid, with all the supporting documents....
I have emailed Christos Lamprou many times about this but he keeps saying we retain our EU character if we were pre-Brexit EU ( & U.K) VAT paid etc and only lose that status when we leave the EU. On return, if same details and within 3 years a UTL would be issued. However, thus far he ends every email by saying see your local Competent Authority.
The issue is they are not competent and indeed corrupt !
I shall try the British Embassy next !

Crete has a reputation for being awful. The CA has been successful in overturning fines.

 

[dorado33]

The CA has just announced that the Shipping Ministry has changed the law on Checking In and Out for the Unlimited Transit Log (UTL) . You used to have to (theoretically) check in AND out of every port you visited.

Following pressure by the CA on the new(ish) shipping minister, a small but significant change in the law has been made.

If you are holding a UTL - you NO LONGER need to check in and out of each port you visit.

You still will have to check out of Greece and check in on returning.

There is NO CHANGE to the requirement for ordinary (NON VAT PAID) TLs (LTL) - you still need to check in and out. This of course is carried out to the letter in some parts of Greece and others - like the Ionian - are very relaxed.
Remember that when you lay up a LTL yacht , you must deposit the TL with Port Police. This stops you going over the 6 months time limit for a non EU resident which with would of course create a residency and tax liability - which is not allowed on a LTL.

Anyone who is VAT Paid status but was issued incorrectly with a Limited Transit log, should go to customs with his Proof of Vat and ask them to upgrade the TL. You may of course be faced with the issue of proving vat has never been refunded. You need to appeal to the AADE or Join the CA and get them to speak out for you. It is of course impossible for a private yacht to get a refund of VAT unde4r any circumstances. The CA is still working on this - and it is by no means universal in Greece - mainly Dodecanese islands and Crete. The rest seem to be quite capable of understanding the Union Customs Code and are doing the right thing. Preveza is particularly good with Stavros Pivlades . But don't ask if you don't need one - ie you have been in Greece since Brexit day. Stavros will say you dont need any TL of and sort and will not give you one.

Changing slowly!

 

[dorado33]

Hi Chris,
Hope you are well.
I have had an couple of replies from Christos Lamprou albeit after having sent reminders.
He always states that boats in the EU on 31/12/2020 with EU ( incl U.K ) paid VAT status "retain their EU character until they leave EU waters".
He originally said that when such a boat leaves EU territory ( to say Turkey) if within 3 years and same owner/ details then a UTL would be issued.

He has completely ignored my email details about the issues being faced here and that in Paros, Leros and Kalymnos the customs there say no transit log is required and that one can move from island group to island group in Greece without any issue.

His last response again mentions that once you leave EU territory ( and he means 6nm offshore) then to traverse international waters from one island to another a T2L may be issued in exeptional circumstances whereby no transit log is required.
This is beyond ridiculous as I checked out a T2L form and it is only valid for 4 months and states on the form " name of person sending goods" and "name of person receiving goods".

It is clearly a form for non EU goods ( i.e. a container of kids toys for Jumbo from China) to use to transit across Greece.

So it seems to me it is his way of saying if you want to go from island group to island group within Greece then take your papers to the local Customs to prove your ownership, VAT paid status etc and get a UTL post or pre Brexit being treated the same !

So where and how is our EU character retained compared to a post Brexit boat ?
A Dutch, French or German or any other boat can leave Crete and sail to Rhodes through International waters and no T2L is needed nor has anyone here ever heard of such a thing.
So much for our retained EU character..
we can only sail 6nm around one island....what utter nonesense!
Anyway, I have just emailed the British Embassy to try to get a good contact as this has just become a total farce.
People here are being fined for sailing in International Waters...that is the latest trend from the Port Authority.
It makes Monty Python believable
Cheers
Bob

 

[dorado33]

Hi Chris,
Hope you are well.
I have had an couple of replies from Christos Lamprou albeit after having sent reminders.
He always states that boats in the EU on 31/12/2020 with EU ( incl U.K ) paid VAT status "retain their EU character until they leave EU waters".
He originally said that when such a boat leaves EU territory ( to say Turkey) if within 3 years and same owner/ details then a UTL would be issued.

He has completely ignored my email details about the issues being faced here and that in Paros, Leros and Kalymnos the customs there say no transit log is required and that one can move from island group to island group in Greece without any issue.

His last response again mentions that once you leave EU territory ( and he means 6nm offshore) then to traverse international waters from one island to another a T2L may be issued in exeptional circumstances whereby no transit log is required.
This is beyond ridiculous as I checked out a T2L form and it is only valid for 4 months and states on the form " name of person sending goods" and "name of person receiving goods".

It is clearly a form for non EU goods ( i.e. a container of kids toys for Jumbo from China) to use to transit across Greece.

So it seems to me it is his way of saying if you want to go from island group to island group within Greece then take your papers to the local Customs to prove your ownership, VAT paid status etc and get a UTL post or pre Brexit being treated the same !

So where and how is our EU character retained compared to a post Brexit boat ?
A Dutch, French or German or any other boat can leave Crete and sail to Rhodes through International waters and no T2L is needed nor has anyone here ever heard of such a thing.
So much for our retained EU character..
we can only sail 6nm around one island....what utter nonesense!
Anyway, I have just emailed the British Embassy to try to get a good contact as this has just become a total farce.
People here are being fined for sailing in International Waters...that is the latest trend from the Port Authority.
It makes Monty Python believable
Cheers
Bob

 

[Chris_Robb]

Hi Chris,
Hope you are well.
I have had an couple of replies from Christos Lamprou albeit after having sent reminders.
He always states that boats in the EU on 31/12/2020 with EU ( incl U.K ) paid VAT status "retain their EU character until they leave EU waters".
He originally said that when such a boat leaves EU territory ( to say Turkey) if within 3 years and same owner/ details then a UTL would be issued.

He has completely ignored my email details about the issues being faced here and that in Paros, Leros and Kalymnos the customs there say no transit log is required and that one can move from island group to island group in Greece without any issue.

His last response again mentions that once you leave EU territory ( and he means 6nm offshore) then to traverse international waters from one island to another a T2L may be issued in exeptional circumstances whereby no transit log is required.
This is beyond ridiculous as I checked out a T2L form and it is only valid for 4 months and states on the form " name of person sending goods" and "name of person receiving goods".

It is clearly a form for non EU goods ( i.e. a container of kids toys for Jumbo from China) to use to transit across Greece.

So it seems to me it is his way of saying if you want to go from island group to island group within Greece then take your papers to the local Customs to prove your ownership, VAT paid status etc and get a UTL post or pre Brexit being treated the same !

So where and how is our EU character retained compared to a post Brexit boat ?
A Dutch, French or German or any other boat can leave Crete and sail to Rhodes through International waters and no T2L is needed nor has anyone here ever heard of such a thing.
So much for our retained EU character..
we can only sail 6nm around one island....what utter nonesense!
Anyway, I have just emailed the British Embassy to try to get a good contact as this has just become a total farce.
People here are being fined for sailing in International Waters...that is the latest trend from the Port Authority.
It makes Monty Python believable
Cheers
Bob

Bob, I am well out of it all now. Christos was a good guy until I think he was banned from speaking to us by the directors of the AADE. Partly because we raised a complaint about the Vat Customs which is part of the AADE, and also because we never got any satisfactory answers so refused to close the EU complaint.

We ended up doing about 20 formal complaints to the AADE following their rules on how to do it. They answered one of them only...." it's down to local Customs to make the decisions " so it became a visious circle. Creek indeed did hand back a large fine.... but the main problem was the Dodecananese islands who just refused to issue UTLs. Crete follows closely behind.

The golden rule is don't ask in the first place.....

But I am glad I am out of it all now, boat sold, and back in UK with Sir Kier...