Go Big or Go Home?

[Sticky Fingers]

Yes, Porto touched on this - one to definitely bear in mind. i believe changing a pair of them is around £3,000???

I've had WCs changed on my last boat (manual to Tecma electric) which was £1950 all in (parts and labour) for the two including the new FW flush piping and changeover valves that was needed. Done by Keto at Swanwick.

Budget wise you might not be too far off especially if you go for the pricier options.

 

[GravyStain]

I've had WCs changed on my last boat (manual to Tecma electric) which was £1950 all in (parts and labour) for the two including the new FW flush piping and changeover valves that was needed. Done by Keto at Swanwick.

Budget wise you might not be too far off especially if you go for the pricier options.

Thanks Scala.

 

[Hurricane]

Yesm Scala - I've eyed it up (from the corner of my eye)... Lovely boat. I'm desperately trying to keep my budget at £225,000 which will leave me around £50,000 for a fighting fund. Trouble is, in 2 more years I could spend more but can't right now.

I'll take your Princess and raise you:-
2004 Ferretti Yachts 590 Power New and Used Boats for Sale -

EDIT- MInd you, wow- that Prinny is a loooovely boat. For obvious reasons Princesses have always made me go weak at the knees....

Hmmm... must.....find....more....money...

Might be worth PM'ing Whitelighter (Jez) on this forum.
He has an older Ferretti 150 which he keeps in Sant Carles.
I helped deliver it from Sant Tropez to SCM.

 

[J12345T]

Princess Mk3 is probably my favorite 50ft boat of the era... Just a bit pricey for me in the next year. In 3 years it's a different story, I just don't want to wait that long.

Just make sure you factor in the cost of upgrading in a few years. My advice; buy your second boat first..

All the best.

James.

 

[GravyStain]

Just make sure you factor in the cost of upgrading in a few years. My advice; buy your second boat first..

All the best.

James.

Yes.... In a nutshell... Succinct and to the point and echoes what the other guys have said on here.

Thanks for your clarity.

 

[GravyStain]

Guuys, if this has been done to death then forgive me...

Are there any considerations that need to be taken into account with V drives as oppsed to straight drives... Are you increasing risk / cost heavily, or is it a slight uplift?

Cheers again all. I hope I'm asking the right sort of questions!

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Are there any considerations that need to be taken into account with V drives as oppsed to straight drives... Are you increasing risk / cost heavily, or is it a slight uplift?

Cheers again all. I hope I'm asking the right sort of questions!

I've not owned one but when on my boat search I looked at a few boats with this type of config. TBH I can't see how this would have a massive impact on costs. It was more about layout. My takeaways were:

1. Engine lumps are right at the stern, to the detriment of ride attitude and potentially fuel consumption
2. Engine / V Drive combo seems to be used to minimise space used by engines, so might find relatively good accommodation at the expense of engine room access and space around the lumps for servicing
3. No obvious space for a lazarette, so cockpit storage is compromised. Also true of outdrive boats.

 

[Hurricane]

Like others, I've not had a V drive layout.
I believe that Whitelighter's Ferretti has V drives though.
I think he said that it was really easy to manoeuvre becaise the props were further forward and nearer the centre of natural rotation.

The only concern I would have id access to the shaft seals.
Being V drives, they might have placed the engines over the position where the shafts exit the boat and you would need access to the seals for maintenance/repair.
I may be wrong or they must have thought of that when designing the boat.
Worth checking but apart from that, I don't think I would be put off by V drives.

Unlike my views over pods - I definitely wouldn't have pod drives.

 

[jrudge]

It’s all pointing towards a S58 !!Has pretty much all of the above. Personally it is about what you can live without as in a perfect world all would be nice. The grill on the Fly is a waste and a humongous pain to clean - get a Webber BBQ

I used to think that until I got silicone BBQ pads. Amazing things. Cost pennies on eBay and one lasts most of a season. You just stick it in the sink and never clean the BBQ again.

 

[GravyStain]

I've not owned one but when on my boat search I looked at a few boats with this type of config. TBH I can't see how this would have a massive impact on costs. It was more about layout. My takeaways were:

1. Engine lumps are right at the stern, to the detriment of ride attitude and potentially fuel consumption
2. Engine / V Drive combo seems to be used to minimise space used by engines, so might find relatively good accommodation at the expense of engine room access and space around the lumps for servicing
3. No obvious space for a lazarette, so cockpit storage is compromised. Also true of outdrive boats.

Hadn't thought of the lazarette issue...thanks.

 

[GravyStain]

Like others, I've not had a V drive layout.
I believe that Whitelighter's Ferretti has V drives though.
I think he said that it was really easy to manoeuvre becaise the props were further forward and nearer the centre of natural rotation.

The only concern I would have id access to the shaft seals.
Being V drives, they might have placed the engines over the position where the shafts exit the boat and you would need access to the seals for maintenance/repair.
I may be wrong or they must have thought of that when designing the boat.
Worth checking but apart from that, I don't think I would be put off by V drives.

Unlike my views over pods - I definitely wouldn't have pod drives.

Thanks again Hurricane. I think most of the older Ferretti's had V drives (Markc has them on his Ferretti also).

 

[GravyStain]

I used to think that until I got silicone BBQ pads. Amazing things. Cost pennies on eBay and one lasts most of a season. You just stick it in the sink and never clean the BBQ again.

Yes - I use them at home, great idea.

 

[MapisM]

Like others, I've not had a V drive layout.
I believe that Whitelighter's Ferretti has V drives though.
I think he said that it was really easy to manoeuvre becaise the props were further forward and nearer the centre of natural rotation.

The only concern I would have id access to the shaft seals.
Being V drives, they might have placed the engines over the position where the shafts exit the boat and you would need access to the seals for maintenance/repair.
I may be wrong or they must have thought of that when designing the boat.
Worth checking but apart from that, I don't think I would be put off by V drives.

Unlike my views over pods - I definitely wouldn't have pod drives.

M, I can't remember WL saying that, but if he did, he was missing what Ferretti really used to do back in those days, and why.
In fact, V-drives per se do NOT imply a more forward position of the props, and generally speaking, in terms of efficiency it's better to have props as astern as possible.
To the point that some builders use rudders overhanging from the stern rather than sticking out from the hull bottom, just to gain a few inches to place props further back.
And that includes most Ferrettis of the generation that followed WL's boat, from the late 90s onward, even if they were still on V-drives (with the only exception of the 53, IIRC).

But in the early 90s, Ferretti used to make a separate mould for the stern section of their boat under the swim platform - a trick strictly aimed at registering boats with a shorter LOA, compared to what the actual length was.
And RINA accepted that only as long as the removal of the separate mould did not affect the boat operation, so they had to place the shaft brackets and rudders in the "main" hull mould.
THIS is the reason why props were much more forward than usual.
I'm sure they did that on the 150, 165, 175 and 185, and I would guess also on the 225 which was their larger boat back then, but I can't be positive about the latter because I never saw one on the hard.
The pic below of a 165 shows what I mean very clearly, but the V-drive choice had nothing to see with that anyway.

Ref. shaft seals accessibility, you are absolutely correct, it can be a bit of a PITA with V-drives, depending also on the jackshaft length.
It surely is on my boat, whose jackshaft is rather short and the seal is right under the gearbox, but it's still manageable.
In fact, I had both seals removed and refurbished when I bought her, and the chap who took care of that only screamed a couple of times or three during the job.
Actually, in spite of their age (13 years/1400+ hours), neither were leaking, but I just wanted to play safe, before a 1200 Nm delivery trip.
And if they will run another 13 years before the next maintenance, I won't complain!

 

[jrudge]

Remember boats are a compromise. Engine back, more cabin, less laz space etc.

The trick it to find the compromise that works for you in terms of age, price, accommodation, speed, etc etc etc.

Some boats have less compromise and some more. Previous best sellers tended to be best sellers for a reason - decent sea keeping, and wide appeal on the space / money quality front.

The Squadron 58 was class leading for many years. I have one so by all means call me biased, but they made a lot of them as people kept on buying them. The Princess 50 Mk3 is a lovely boat, but for its size is expensive ( or was when I last looked) - but it is modern and has a mid cabin.

The Manhattan 50 is a nice boat, the master cabin is compromised, but it is a mid cabin boat with a huge galley. The "cost" is that there is only a saloon and no diner ( and not upstairs grill).

And so it goes on.

Good luck

 

[markc]

Yes as you pointed out I have V drives. The access to the stem glands is fine. Obviously any boat builder has lots of choices to make as to where they put things, but in terms of just my boat, the benefits are that the engines are under the cockpit, so service access is very easy. Additionally the boat was built so that the entire cockpit sole can be unbolted and removed giving totally unobstructed access to remove engines etc without going inside the boat at all. The fuel tank goes across the boat between the engines & accommodation rather than each side of the engines, so access around the engines is very good. The storage inside the bathing platform is huge - Ferretti showed in the brochures that it was designed to hold a jet ski inside and a rib on top. It's not that easy to use as I need to crane the rib up to get into it, but it's an incredibly useful space. Many boats without V drives have the space aft of the engine room to drop a good crew cabin in.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I've not owned one but when on my boat search I looked at a few boats with this type of config. TBH I can't see how this would have a massive impact on costs. It was more about layout. My takeaways were:

1. Engine lumps are right at the stern, to the detriment of ride attitude and potentially fuel consumption
2. Engine / V Drive combo seems to be used to minimise space used by engines, so might find relatively good accommodation at the expense of engine room access and space around the lumps for servicing
3. No obvious space for a lazarette, so cockpit storage is compromised. Also true of outdrive boats.

My current Ferretti 630 has V drives as did a previous Ferretti 46 I used to own. There are a number of advantages/disadvantages to this arrangement

Yes in theory V drives do release more space forward for accommodation but actually the reason that Ferretti designed many of their boats in this way was twofold. Firstly it allowed them to place the fuel tank(s) forward of the engines as close to the centre of gravity as possible. Compare this to most British boats where the fuel tanks are usually outboard of the engines which creates two issues. Firstly it restricts access to the outboard side of the engines and secondly it puts two large weights at the extremities of the hull which certainly does not help roll stability. The second reason is that on many models, it allowed them to place the crew cabin forward of the engines as well. This means that the crew cabin and the fuel tanks on many of their models are located between the machinery space and the guest accommodation providing a barrier to noise and vibration. Actually the reason that the guest accommodation on Ferrettis generally feels larger than other boats of similar length has nothing to do with the V drive configuration and everything to do with the fact that Ferrettis are generally beamier than other boats (not true of the very latest Ferrettis sadly)

The second advantage of the V drive configuration is that it puts the engines under the cockpit not under the saloon. That has 2 benefits. Firstly it makes access to the engines easier and secondly, because the engines are further aft under the cockpit rather than under the saloon, you get significantly less noise and vibration in the saloon when under way. I can drive my boat from the lower helm at 20kts and talk to other people in the saloon without raising my voice at all. Of course the big disadvantage of this arrangement is that you lose a separate lazarette. Ferretti do make up for this with a separate storage compartment under the bathing platform (spoiler in Ferrettispeak) but it is usually damp and not easy to get at because the tender is on top of it. Yes there is usually space in the engine bay to store stuff but its not ideal. We store stuff like folding bikes and cockpit chairs in our crew cabin. The other minor disadvantage is access to the shaft seals but the way my boats have been designed puts the shaft seals under the shaft between engines and gearboxes which makes them reasonably accessible

As for the running attitude of V drive boats, all I can say with the Ferrettis I've owned, they have felt no different to straight shaft boats. As I say, Ferretti usually put the weights of fuel tanks, water and blackwater tanks forward of the engines as well as other heavy stuff like gennies, watermakers and A/C units, all of which offset the weight of the engines aft. Generally speaking all of my Ferrettis have run fairly flat and start planing at relatively low speeds in the region of 12-13kts

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I'll take your Princess and raise you:-
2004 Ferretti Yachts 590 Power New and Used Boats for Sale -.

If the photos are current that is a really nice boat with relatively low engine hours and a good spec. Unfortunately its ex VAT and that means one of 2 things. Either the boat is being sold via a company in which case they will have to add VAT onto their invoice to you unless you are exporting it out of the EU immediately which I assume you dont want to. Or the boat is being sold privately and you can buy it ex VAT but then you at risk from some busybody official asking you to prove the VAT status of the boat. Its never happened to me in 18yrs of boating in the Med but there's always a first time

 

[GravyStain]

Another G and T and a distillation of thoughts then for your perusal:-

"Buy your second boat first"... such a geat phrase and it's been running around my head since yesterday. How I manage to do it is irrelevant as it's true and the Kiwi who said it is spot on.
So, with a budget of 300k here goes!

All the boats I'm looking at have the internal stairs, right down to the Ferretti 53 (which is about the smallest i've seen with them fitted).

Squaddie 55/58 - Big plus - good sized utitlity room with access to the engine compartment from inside the boat. Superb design layout although cabins are old school Double, twin twin.
Manhattan 58 - Hasn't grabbed me like the Squaddie or Ferretti (although I have'nt seen one in the flesh).
Princess 57 - Beautiful boat, aft cabin but no utility room like the Squaddie of Ferretti
Ferretti 57 - Beamier, still a Double twin twin old school layout. V drives for more space but no old school lazarette which could be a pain but plenty of engine room.
Ferretti 55 - Beamy, great value for money @ £240k leaving money in the pot, old school double twin twin but wider, with utility room but no lazarette.
Rodman 56 - A dark horse but well appointed, great pedigree, aft cabin and good bang per buck.
Azimut 55 - nice boat, aft cabin, well appointed but no internal stairs, no utility so a probable nope...

BTW guys, apart from 3 feet, what IS the difference between a Squaddie 55 and a Squaddie 58... I cant see it!

Soooo,

If you guys have any other options to throw at me then please do.

This is FUN!

Hope you guys are enjoying the ride too...

 

[Hurricane]

I used to think that until I got silicone BBQ pads. Amazing things. Cost pennies on eBay and one lasts most of a season. You just stick it in the sink and never clean the BBQ again.

Interesting

 

[Hurricane]

Another G and T and a distillation of thoughts then for your perusal:-

"Buy your second boat first"... such a geat phrase and it's been running around my head since yesterday. How I manage to do it is irrelevant as it's true and the Kiwi who said it is spot on.
So, with a budget of 300k here goes!

All the boats I'm looking at have the internal stairs, right down to the Ferretti 53 (which is about the smallest i've seen with them fitted).

Squaddie 55/58 - Big plus - good sized utitlity room with access to the engine compartment from inside the boat. Superb design layout although cabins are old school Double, twin twin.
Manhattan 58 - Hasn't grabbed me like the Squaddie or Ferretti (although I have'nt seen one in the flesh).
Princess 57 - Beautiful boat, aft cabin but no utility room like the Squaddie of Ferretti
Ferretti 57 - Beamier, still a Double twin twin old school layout. V drives for more space but no old school lazarette which could be a pain but plenty of engine room.
Ferretti 55 - Beamy, great value for money @ £240k leaving money in the pot, old school double twin twin but wider, with utility room but no lazarette.
Rodman 56 - A dark horse but well appointed, great pedigree, aft cabin and good bang per buck.
Azimut 55 - nice boat, aft cabin, well appointed but no internal stairs, no utility so a probable nope...

BTW guys, apart from 3 feet, what IS the difference between a Squaddie 55 and a Squaddie 58... I cant see it!

Soooo,

If you guys have any other options to throw at me then please do.

This is FUN!

Hope you guys are enjoying the ride too...

Out of that list, it would be the Squaddie 58 (not the 55) or the Princess 57.
I'm not a Ferretti man.
I would probably edge on the side of the Princess because I already own its bigger sister and understand the layout and the Princess build (I've been in the Princess factory several times).
Does anyone know what happened to NickH - he had a Princess 57.