Go Big or Go Home?

[Portofino]

Enough outside space for all to sunbath , and a bimini big enough for the same to seek shade .
Aircon is quieter with a central chiller .Most self contained units are too noisy if placed under your bed to sleep .
Electric hob .
large enough table outside for all to seat at once .

None teak as much as possible for a used boat as a bit like pass the parcel there’s a huge refurb bill lurking for the next ( you ) owner .
Avoid Vac flush toilets , age means bills and reliability hassle .

Better off with no carpets if possible esp cream .Wood floors are easy to clean .

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Have I missed anything?

It would be good to have a 3rd set of throttle/thruster controls in the cockpit as they've very useful for going stern to into berths which you will be doing nearly all the time in the Med. And on the subject of thrusters, a powerful bow thruster is well worth having although a stern thruster is only a nice to have. You will be doing a lot of anchoring so a large (for the size of boat) modern anchor with at least 75m of chain is essential for peace of mind although you could fit this after purchase. A watermaker is nice but not essential. Its unlikely but any boat with a gyro stabiliser would be worth considering

Regarding the genny, 7kVa seems small to be running A/C and other 220V systems. Probably 11kVa would be minimum for a 40-50ft and a well known make like Kohler, Onan, Northern Lights would be good. An inverter to run some 220V systems is worth having.

 

[Hurricane]

Guys,

Is there a list of necessities for Med cruising?

I'm starting to home in on the right flybridge model and thinking about the optimum spec. I appreciate that all boats are compromises...

Here's what I can think of off the top of my head (leaving aside the obvious need for space (large lazarette, crew cabin etc...):-

Full size fridge freezer in the galley
Ice maker
Fridge / icemaker on the flybridge
Grill on the flybridge
Decent genny (is 7Kw enough)?
Pasarelle with crane functionality
Reverse cycle aircon
Washer / drier
Decent tender (size dependant on the boat)

Have I missed anything?

Thanks guys, hope you all had a decent weekend (in the circumstances).

You will need a Bimini but you could retro fit that anyway.

Tenders are always difficult - always compromises.
The bigger ones are difficult to drag up the beach.
The smaller ones don't carry enough people.
Small engines are lighter but you need a bigger engine to water ski etc
Jet boats are heavier - and, IMO less reliable.
But my thoughts are to go as big as you can and I would always have a tender with an outboard motor.
I've had JetRibs - great fun but most people change them for conventional tenders after a few years.
JetsRibs tend to be more expensive as well.

I like carpets and I have cream/magnolia coloured carpets - like anything, you have to keep them clean.
The Aircon will come as reverse cycle but I only use ours in cooling mode.
When I'm out in the winter months, it is easier to switch on a couple of electric heaters.

We wouldn't be without our ice maker but they are quite power hungry.
We tend to make ice for the week and keep it in the freezer so not an issue if you had to buy some ice from the supermarket as long as you have freezer space.
If we are away from shore power for more than a week or two, we have been known to buy the ice rather than make it.
But you definitely need to plan for ise - G & T without ice is hell.

I think you will be lucky to find a full size fridge freezer in the galley on the 50 footers.
And if there are there, the freezer would probably be a separate unit.
Another reason to go bigger.

A second fridge is a good idea.
The main fridge in the galley will fill up with food.
But you need somewhere for the beer and tonic - in other words a "drinks fridge".
We have a drinks fridge at home so we wouldn't be comfortable without one on the boat as well.

Stern winches - not essential but handy for Med style stern berthing.
Again, the bigger boats are more likely to come with stern winches.
The smaller boats you will have to do it by hand or use the bow windlass.

We hardly use our grill/BBQ on the flybridge - I wouldn't say that was essential.

Generator
A generator powerful enough to recharge batteries and run the galley IMO is a must.
Additionally, you might find some boats fitted with generators that are big enough to run the Aircon as well.
Again, the bigger boats tend to have a generator big enough to run the A/C.
That said, my friend's Phantom 48 that we delivered to SC last summer has a 17Kw generator - exactly the same as my generator and mine is big enough for a 20m boat..
Thats probably an oddball though.
Hot water for the whole boat is usually from one of the engine's cooling system - and immersion heater whilst on shore power.

Porto is correct about Teak.
You will probably find that the boats of the age you are looking at will have teak and that teak will probably need replacing.
Teak is nice but it is very hard work to keep clean.
See my article in next month's Motor Boat and Yachting mag - I'm going plastic.

I can't think of anything else but others may come up with some ideas.

 

[Hurricane]

It would be good to have a 3rd set of throttle/thruster controls in the cockpit as they've very useful for going stern to into berths which you will be doing nearly all the time in the Med. And on the subject of thrusters, a powerful bow thruster is well worth having although a stern thruster is only a nice to have. You will be doing a lot of anchoring so a large (for the size of boat) modern anchor with at least 75m of chain is essential for peace of mind although you could fit this after purchase. A watermaker is nice but not essential. Its unlikely but any boat with a gyro stabiliser would be worth considering

Regarding the genny, 7kVa seems small to be running A/C and other 220V systems. Probably 11kVa would be minimum for a 40-50ft and a well known make like Kohler, Onan, Northern Lights would be good. An inverter to run some 220V systems is worth having.

Yep - I agree with Deleted User - Thrusters are essential.
And for a beginner, a stern thruster as well as a bow thruster would probably save you any knocks in the first few years.

Mike's point about the third station is valid but you probably won't find the smaller boats with that feature.

Thrusters, on the other hand can have wireless remote controls added for very little money - my wireless device for my Sidepower thrusters only cost a couple of hundred quid. I keep it on a bracket behind the lower helm and hang it round my neck whilst we are docking. Being a pontoon berth in SC, the remote control helps to keep the boat in place whilst the lines are put on.

 

[Hurricane]

An inverter to run some 220V systems is worth having.

I always have an argument with a yachtie friend of mine - he doesn't have a generator but a big inverter.
He can't understand why I run a 17Kw generator - just to make a cup of tea.
It does happen a few times but not very often - tea? or a cool beer?
In reality, we only run the kettle and/or the coffee maker when the generator is running anyway.

That said, we are VERY dependant on smaller inverters that run our electronic devices.
I think that the kind of boats you will be looking at will usually have an inverter.
But, in my opinion it is not essential to have an inverter big enough to run the kettle.

 

[markc]

I agree with everything that's been said so far, but one omission from the list that I think is really important is storage space. It's amazing how much space you can need, especially with extended time on board. That includes enough space in the galley, wardrobe space, storage for things like deflated paddle boards, beach toys, tools etc. I don't think this should be underestimated. For example on our boat, although the galley is a good size with domestic fridge freezer, microwave, dishwasher, double sink etc, there is no way enough space for food. Thankfully we have a crew cabin that is accessed directly from the galley which we have turned into a pantry, so we have solved the problem. There certainly wouldn't have been enough space otherwise. We find our watermaker is useful, although not essential. The satellite TV is good for the kids when we are out of range of a decent 4g signal for the boat's network, again not essential.

 

[GravyStain]

Enough outside space for all to sunbath , and a bimini big enough for the same to seek shade .
Aircon is quieter with a central chiller .Most self contained units are too noisy if placed under your bed to sleep .
Electric hob .
large enough table outside for all to seat at once .

None teak as much as possible for a used boat as a bit like pass the parcel there’s a huge refurb bill lurking for the next ( you ) owner .
Avoid Vac flush toilets , age means bills and reliability hassle .

Better off with no carpets if possible esp cream .Wood floors are easy to clean .

Thanks Porto - the Bimini is a must , I agree. Most older boats that I'm looking at tend to have a lot of teak so that is moot in that if it's the right boat, then it becomes a lesser consideration.
Vac flush toilets - I'll bear that in mind.

 

[GravyStain]

It would be good to have a 3rd set of throttle/thruster controls in the cockpit as they've very useful for going stern to into berths which you will be doing nearly all the time in the Med. And on the subject of thrusters, a powerful bow thruster is well worth having although a stern thruster is only a nice to have. You will be doing a lot of anchoring so a large (for the size of boat) modern anchor with at least 75m of chain is essential for peace of mind although you could fit this after purchase. A watermaker is nice but not essential. Its unlikely but any boat with a gyro stabiliser would be worth considering

Regarding the genny, 7kVa seems small to be running A/C and other 220V systems. Probably 11kVa would be minimum for a 40-50ft and a well known make like Kohler, Onan, Northern Lights would be good. An inverter to run some 220V systems is worth having.

It's amazing how many larger boats from 15 years ago still only have a 7kw genny, and I include Squaddie 55's in there. I will definitely look for 11Kw upwards.

 

[GravyStain]

You will need a Bimini but you could retro fit that anyway.

Tenders are always difficult - always compromises.
The bigger ones are difficult to drag up the beach.
The smaller ones don't carry enough people.
Small engines are lighter but you need a bigger engine to water ski etc
Jet boats are heavier - and, IMO less reliable.
But my thoughts are to go as big as you can and I would always have a tender with an outboard motor.
I've had JetRibs - great fun but most people change them for conventional tenders after a few years.
JetsRibs tend to be more expensive as well.

I like carpets and I have cream/magnolia coloured carpets - like anything, you have to keep them clean.
The Aircon will come as reverse cycle but I only use ours in cooling mode.
When I'm out in the winter months, it is easier to switch on a couple of electric heaters.

We wouldn't be without our ice maker but they are quite power hungry.
We tend to make ice for the week and keep it in the freezer so not an issue if you had to buy some ice from the supermarket as long as you have freezer space.
If we are away from shore power for more than a week or two, we have been known to buy the ice rather than make it.
But you definitely need to plan for ise - G & T without ice is hell.

I think you will be lucky to find a full size fridge freezer in the galley on the 50 footers.
And if there are there, the freezer would probably be a separate unit.
Another reason to go bigger.

A second fridge is a good idea.
The main fridge in the galley will fill up with food.
But you need somewhere for the beer and tonic - in other words a "drinks fridge".
We have a drinks fridge at home so we wouldn't be comfortable without one on the boat as well.

Stern winches - not essential but handy for Med style stern berthing.
Again, the bigger boats are more likely to come with stern winches.
The smaller boats you will have to do it by hand or use the bow windlass.

We hardly use our grill/BBQ on the flybridge - I wouldn't say that was essential.

Generator
A generator powerful enough to recharge batteries and run the galley IMO is a must.
Additionally, you might find some boats fitted with generators that are big enough to run the Aircon as well.
Again, the bigger boats tend to have a generator big enough to run the A/C.
That said, my friend's Phantom 48 that we delivered to SC last summer has a 17Kw generator - exactly the same as my generator and mine is big enough for a 20m boat..
Thats probably an oddball though.
Hot water for the whole boat is usually from one of the engine's cooling system - and immersion heater whilst on shore power.

Porto is correct about Teak.
You will probably find that the boats of the age you are looking at will have teak and that teak will probably need replacing.
Teak is nice but it is very hard work to keep clean.
See my article in next month's Motor Boat and Yachting mag - I'm going plastic.

I can't think of anything else but others may come up with some ideas.

A Williams 285 about right?
I don't anticipate ever having more than 4 or 5 people on the boat for any extended periods.
definite yes to a drinks fridge - I can drink G and T with the best fo them...
The Ice maker is interesting - didn't realise they suck up so much juice...
I'll be looking for an 11Kw genny or above.

 

[GravyStain]

Yep - I agree with Deleted User - Thrusters are essential.
And for a beginner, a stern thruster as well as a bow thruster would probably save you any knocks in the first few years.

Mike's point about the third station is valid but you probably won't find the smaller boats with that feature.

Thrusters, on the other hand can have wireless remote controls added for very little money - my wireless device for my Sidepower thrusters only cost a couple of hundred quid. I keep it on a bracket behind the lower helm and hang it round my neck whilst we are docking. Being a pontoon berth in SC, the remote control helps to keep the boat in place whilst the lines are put on.

Yes, I've seen the remote option - superb for driving short handed I imagine. A stern thruster would be nice I agree, but can be added after the fact?

 

[GravyStain]

I always have an argument with a yachtie friend of mine - he doesn't have a generator but a big inverter.
He can't understand why I run a 17Kw generator - just to make a cup of tea.
It does happen a few times but not very often - tea? or a cool beer?
In reality, we only run the kettle and/or the coffee maker when the generator is running anyway.

That said, we are VERY dependant on smaller inverters that run our electronic devices.
I think that the kind of boats you will be looking at will usually have an inverter.
But, in my opinion it is not essential to have an inverter big enough to run the kettle.

Hurricane - just to show my ignorance, is an inverter a device that takes you from 12V to 220V on batteries, without running the genny?

EDIT - yes, just googled it. cheers.

 

[GravyStain]

I agree with everything that's been said so far, but one omission from the list that I think is really important is storage space. It's amazing how much space you can need, especially with extended time on board. That includes enough space in the galley, wardrobe space, storage for things like deflated paddle boards, beach toys, tools etc. I don't think this should be underestimated. For example on our boat, although the galley is a good size with domestic fridge freezer, microwave, dishwasher, double sink etc, there is no way enough space for food. Thankfully we have a crew cabin that is accessed directly from the galley which we have turned into a pantry, so we have solved the problem. There certainly wouldn't have been enough space otherwise. We find our watermaker is useful, although not essential. The satellite TV is good for the kids when we are out of range of a decent 4g signal for the boat's network, again not essential.

Hi Mark - can I ask what boat you have? I'm edging towards a Squaddie 55 because it has the utility room off the kitchen, and engine access from there also. Does that prove how boring I am, or does it show that I'm taking the whole space thing seriously Images of plastic families smiling on the flybridge at WOT is all well and good but if you can't fit the necessities on the boat that you need as well as the luxuries then your experience will be marred by unacceptable compromises...

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

It's amazing how many larger boats from 15 years ago still only have a 7kw genny, and I include Squaddie 55's in there. I will definitely look for 11Kw upwards.

Maybe because those boats are UK based and havent got or dont use a/c? A 7 kVa genny will probably be powerful enough to drive the a/c on a 55 footer but the problem comes when somebody switches on a hair dryer or kettle or electric hob as well and then the genny will struggle.

In the end though it shouldnt be a deal breaker. If you find absolutely the right boat in every respect except for the size of the genny, then either live with it by managing the 220V loads when you are on board or put some cash aside to upgrade it

 

[mcanderson]

On our 38' boat on the South of France we can max the 5.5KVA gen out in summer with AC, Grill and immersion heater for hot water. How so I hear you ask.

Last swim for the day = nice shower to get the salt off. Air con running to start to cool the cabins for dropping off to sleep and grill/stove top on for dinner.

On the ice factor not only needed for G&T, but rose piscines can be addictive.

NB - Rose piscine is a large wine glass with a healthy splash of decent rose and lots of ice. Madame Deleted User and Madame McAnderson certainly look to enjoy them!

 

[Sticky Fingers]

...
Have I missed anything?
...

Very useful input from others. My own suggestions based on my experience boating in the Med (all sail but nonetheless...)

- In addition to the Bimini, it can sometimes be necessary to provide shade to the side(s)
- Transom / aft platform shower
- Four stern / transom cleats ideally oversize
- Lots of anchor chain (or chain plus rode), the usual 50m turned out to be inadequate at times, though I guess this will depend on your eventual cruising area
- 2 (very) long lines that you can use as shore lines (per Hurricane's videos). Floating line is easier to handle.
- Somewhere to stow your fenders when you're at anchor. Leaving them out = just a plain no On deck - pain in the arse. In the cockpit - untidy.

Anyways. Search is shaping up nicely I think

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Yes Mrs Deleted User and Mrs McAnderson can certainly put away plenty of that stuff?And its not just them. Every female we've had onboard seems to consume Rose at a faster rate than my engines consume diesel!

So thats a definite bit of good Med boating advice. Keep the Rose store well stocked

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Also Mrs Scala. And all of Mrs Scala's friends

 

[Bouba]

Mme Bouba aime aussi le vin rosé

 

[Hurricane]

Anchoring
I don't think you will find a boat with big enough ground tackle.
T

A Williams 285 about right?
I don't anticipate ever having more than 4 or 5 people on the boat for any extended periods.
definite yes to a drinks fridge - I can drink G and T with the best fo them...
The Ice maker is interesting - didn't realise they suck up so much juice...
I'll be looking for an 11Kw genny or above.

I think you missed my point - A Williams Jet would NOT be on MY shopping list.
IMO, a good reliable outboard motor driven RIB would be my choice.
For example a new light Walker Bay is about one third of the cost of a Williams Jet.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Mme Bouba aime aussi le vin rosé

Wow, impressive J. Did you have to learn that phrase to get the carte de sejour? ?