lustyd
Well-known member
So now we've "taken control of the border" and removed it, it's occured to me, is Gib part of UK as far as VAT is concerned? I can't remember where they stood on VAT when I went.
Gibraltar
- Thread starter lustyd
- Start date
Kelpie
Well-known member
I think Gib was VAT free, like the Channel Islands.
lustyd
Well-known member
Hmm that's a pain, although can that continue as part of Schengen?
Sea Devil
Well-known member
Yes it was VAT free but has/had import duty of 10 or 12%.. So importing stuff for boats was a bit of a swizz as when you added the freight cost there was not much advantage. Mind you the duty on fuel, cigarettes and booze was minimal and well worth having.. And this had noting to do with the fact all 3 of these enterprises are owned privately by senior members of the Gibraltar government.
capnsensible
Well-known member
Marine diesel in gib is duty free. Are you totally sure about ownership of, say, the CEPSA fuel dock in marina bay?
Graham376
Well-known member
Can't find any of the directors of MH Bland (bonded warehouse) listed as senior government members - About MH Bland — MH Bland
Sea Devil
Well-known member
Yes indeed fuel, Cigarettes, spirits etc are all duty free much to the annoyance of the Spanish and smuggling goes on all the time despite the amazing efforts of Gibraltar police.... I am told..
Much as I love Gibraltar, and I have been going there for 30 years the first time when the frontier was closed. My Uncle and a good friend are buried there. However I am always amused by the somewhat 'dodgy' antics of the governing powers... The family's who 'own' the place with their 2nd - 1st homes in the capital of Gibraltar - Sotogrande are owners of the main importing businesses on the rock. Tobacco, Spirits, Fuel.
As you know there are 2 or 3 fuel docks at Ocean Village and I do not know the ownership of each one but of course it is very attractive if you are the importer to have your goods zero rated for import duty..
Much as I love Gibraltar, and I have been going there for 30 years the first time when the frontier was closed. My Uncle and a good friend are buried there. However I am always amused by the somewhat 'dodgy' antics of the governing powers... The family's who 'own' the place with their 2nd - 1st homes in the capital of Gibraltar - Sotogrande are owners of the main importing businesses on the rock. Tobacco, Spirits, Fuel.
As you know there are 2 or 3 fuel docks at Ocean Village and I do not know the ownership of each one but of course it is very attractive if you are the importer to have your goods zero rated for import duty..
Sea Devil
Well-known member
Really? no connections? Then I stand 100% corrected... I am not going to risk being sued for libel over a chat room conversation. I totally acccept there is no corruption at any level in Gibraltar government. It is 100% kosher..
Blue Sunray
Well-known member
There was serious consideration of various options to change the governance (potentially including a period of direct rule) of the Rock not so very long ago due to UK Govt concerns about which side some very senior individuals were on with respect to various nefarious activities. The deal that has been done with the Spanish could be very good indeed for Gib, if they will/can curb the the smuggling in particular.
Sea Devil
Well-known member
I agree it appears to be a very good deal for Gibraltar and I'm amused that Sotogrande can continue to be the main home of many prominent Gibraltarian officials.. I used to keep my boat there whilst I lived in Spain and on several occasions got held up by Guardia road blocks on the way out of La Linea.. I don't know how it works but they were looking for drugs rather than smuggled cigarettes and spirits.
Another complication of the UK relationship with Gib is that our arsenal of nuclear weapons for the Med - Near East is stored there and it is still an important submarine base.. I am certain that the Spanish are totally aware of this and as NATO nations want to find an equitable solution to the sovereignty issue.
The Airport was always intended to be an addition to Malaga and now it appears the new situation will allow easy travel to it from spain and hierarchy will still be able to jump the frontier queues and drive home to Sotogrande each evening...
I just love the place... but since the demise of Shepards boat yard and the take over of ocean village marina by the Cruise ship hotel serving the world trade centre it has become less of a haven for boaty folk - although keeping Paw Paw in Queensway Quay marina was a very enjoyable experience and I would go back there is blink - just have to wait and see exactly how the Gib deal with the EU works out...
capnsensible
Well-known member
Interesting post. So you don't know how many fuel docks there are but you think the owners are corrupt.
Worth remembering that the fuel sold at the two (2) fuel docks in a year probably amount to Mebbe one bunker load for a big ship. Of which there are up to forty (40) bunkered every day.
Anyway, as you suggest, this is not the place to debate those misunderstandings.
capnsensible
Well-known member
The cigarette smuggling across the border is frustrating but very small beer. The drug barons are a serious and deadly threat to Spanish society. Huge amounts come into the port at Algecieras where corruption is rife. Plenty more on small craft from Morocco. An area in the north of la linea by the small fishing harbour has become a virtual no go zone. There are a number of walled mansions with inter connecting tunnels belong to the very rich drug smugglers. Plenty on line articles about it. Fortunately, the average Joe like me was never troubled with the violence that happens there. But I know a few of the un buried that have fallen foul of the get rich quick syndrome.
I could go on....and on! But I think that based on my own experiences of mixing with the 'great and the good' of Gibraltar, the alleged corruption is kinda fake news and goes up there with stuff like nuclear weapons stored there. ?
dom
Well-known member
TernVI
Well-known member
Gib's VAT position has been in the EU's gunsights for many years.
If they truly dismantle the border, there will be consequences, but I suspect it has been on borrowed time for a while.
Like Monaco and the Vatican, Gib is perhaps small enough not to be the biggest problem distorting the single market.
It's politically convenient to ignore the tax issues.
For now.
If they truly dismantle the border, there will be consequences, but I suspect it has been on borrowed time for a while.
Like Monaco and the Vatican, Gib is perhaps small enough not to be the biggest problem distorting the single market.
It's politically convenient to ignore the tax issues.
For now.
GrahamD
Active member
I am considering heading down to Portugal/ Spain, maybe leaving the boat down there for a season or two. The post Brexit status of Gibraltar is now puzzling me, especially when considered against the claimed achievements of Brexit, ie taking back our sovereignty and taking back control.
Although Gibraltar is a British Overseas Territory it has now joined the Schengen area, a sensible move given the number of people crossing the border each day. However as the UK is not a member of Schengen, it can no longer provide border control in its own territory, which will instead be carried out by Frontex, the EU border agency. A presumably unintended outcome of Brexit will be that UK citizens will have their blue passports checked by Spanish border guards when entering British territory.
More importantly, UK passport holders are now subject to the Schengen 90/180 requirement which is a challenge for UK yachtsmen who are cruising in Europe. Presumably this means that the time that UK citizens remain in Gibraltar is now counted in the running Schengen total, and UK sailors in Spain would need to head to Morocco to stop the “Schengen clock”. Another unintended outcome- additional trade for Tangiers marina?
Although Gibraltar is a British Overseas Territory it has now joined the Schengen area, a sensible move given the number of people crossing the border each day. However as the UK is not a member of Schengen, it can no longer provide border control in its own territory, which will instead be carried out by Frontex, the EU border agency. A presumably unintended outcome of Brexit will be that UK citizens will have their blue passports checked by Spanish border guards when entering British territory.
More importantly, UK passport holders are now subject to the Schengen 90/180 requirement which is a challenge for UK yachtsmen who are cruising in Europe. Presumably this means that the time that UK citizens remain in Gibraltar is now counted in the running Schengen total, and UK sailors in Spain would need to head to Morocco to stop the “Schengen clock”. Another unintended outcome- additional trade for Tangiers marina?
Sea Devil
Well-known member
British passports or EU ID cards have always been checked by Spanish border officials on the Gib frontier... And on entry to Gib by boat by Gib officials..
There is nothing to stop you leaving the boat for up to 18 months in Gib/EU then taking it to - Morocco or where ever for 24 hours then returning it to the Gib/EU port for another 18 months
It is only you that is subject to 90/180 rule which means if you spend 90 days in the EU presumably including Gib then you must not visit EU for 180 days... Long time...
Gary Fox
N/A
If I set out from England, and sail directly to Gib (call it a week at sea, for the sake of argument):
Will my 90 out of 180 begin when I leave England, or when I arrive? Where is the missing week, in the sad minds of the shiney-@rsed bureaucrats?
Will my 90 out of 180 begin when I leave England, or when I arrive? Where is the missing week, in the sad minds of the shiney-@rsed bureaucrats?
Sea Devil
Well-known member
All the EU is interested in is when you enter the EU... and when you leave... your passport will be stamped and I assume there will be a data base on which passport numbers are recorded with entry and exit dates. A transit at an EU airport counts as a day out of your 90 allowance in six months
Gary Fox
N/A
Thanks
Sea Devil
Well-known member
De nada
