GGR 22

[Blueboatman]

A message from Simon Corwen this morning indicates he has decided to head for a Chilean port to effect repairs, changing to 'Chichester Class', and will consider his options .
It seems he had too much difficulty maintaining a downwind course in 'moderate breeze' and was worried about slow going with a series of storms due.

That’s really rotten for all his genuine effort and hard won lead so far..
it’s a race of attrition
I think when I read RKJ ‘ a world of my own’ he carried tools and spares and drill bits but no means of sharpening the drill bits .
It’s a crap shoot !

 

[zoidberg]

Communique here

And vox here:

https://soundcloud.com/goldengloberace%2Fsimon-curwen-ggr2022-300123

 

[Frank Holden]

Did he say the 'Ushuaia' word? I think he has moved on from that plan. but sailing through Chilean waters to Ushuaia without checking in to Chile first will lead to serious tears. It is a very sensitive border region down there.


However he seems to be heading for Canal Trinidad which is wide and deep and used by the larger cruise liners coming up from the south. They head out into the ocean there as they are too big to get through the 'English Narrows' north of Puerto Eden.
Its only about 100 miles up to Eden but the prevailing wind in the channels at this time of year is northerly - with rain.
Spare parts to Pto Eden would have to come on the weekly ferry from either Pto Montt or Natales.
He really is between the devil and the deep blue sea.

You can find a bit about the area on pages 60/69
2020.2 Chilean Anchorages.pdf

 

[jlavery]

Did he say the 'Ushuaia' word? I think he has moved on from that plan. but sailing through Chilean waters to Ushuaia without checking in to Chile first will lead to serious tears. It is a very sensitive border region down there.


However he seems to be heading for Canal Trinidad which is wide and deep and used by the larger cruise liners coming up from the south. They head out into the ocean there as they are too big to get through the 'English Narrows' north of Puerto Eden.
Its only about 100 miles up to Eden but the prevailing wind in the channels at this time of year is northerly - with rain.
Spare parts to Pto Eden would have to come on the weekly ferry from either Pto Montt or Natales.
He really is between the devil and the deep blue sea.

You can find a bit about the area on pages 60/69
2020.2 Chilean Anchorages.pdf

Yes, he hasn't got many options.

I took the Navimag ferry from Puerto Montt to Puerto Natales via Puerto Eden in February 2020. And back, as we weren't allowed to disembark due to the nascent COVID pandemic. But that's another (long) story.

Haven't read the above PDF yet but from my limited experience...

Puerto Natales would be the nearest, but nearly all supplies will be dependent on the ferry. Think actual facilities there probably aren't bad.

Puerto Eden is very small and isolated, and again depends on the ferry.

Puerto Montt would be best for facilities, but a long way north, both to get to and then to continue from!

Edit - @Frank Holden - just read more of your guide. I'm jealous, would love to have the time to cruise around there.... But that's a different conversation/topic.

 

[Frank Holden]

Parts into Natales would be airfreight to Punta Arenas and then road.

 

[jlavery]

Parts into Natales would be airfreight to Punta Arenas and then road.

Good point - "all" he needs is some parts, and that would be the route.

However, the route into Puerto Natales is quite tortuous - maybe Punta Arenas would be better. Or even Puerto Montt for relative ease of approach. Nothing's going to be easy!

That's enough armchair navigation from me I think.

 

[ridgy]

Is there a reason not to just go to Punta Arena if that's where the airport and substantial civilization is? Followed by a reasonable looking exit back near the Horn.
This Puerto Natales looks miles out of his way, is it only his difficulty in steering south preventing this?

 

[Frank Holden]

Punta Arenas is an open roadstead but yachts do stop at Muelle Prat for short stays - I'm thinking he only needs 24 hours or so . Getting away to the Horn is straight forward - down Canal Magdalena and out to the ocean through Canal Cockburn. I assume that he is now allowed to anchor to 'wait on weather'. A reasonable number of 'swing at anchor' anchorages on the way both in and out. He would lack charts and pilotage notes - that would complicate that.

 

[zoidberg]

I'm perplexed.....

I don't wish to be an 'armchair admiral' and I fully appreciate the 'man on the spot' and 'expert on his own boat' principles. However, I seek to understand what I can from these events. Perhaps someone better placed can advise.

What is it/why is it that this boat - a long keel with a cut-away forefoot - cannot be made to run downwind reliably in brisk breeze? I would have thought that would be the boat's strong preference, especially so if a few square feet of headsail was poled-out. Better still if a 'twins' arrangement was made, with some canvas from foresail and staysail set on opposite sides.

I understand that some sort of 'trails' were tried and found ineffective. Of course it's down to personal choices, but I would have thought that a suitable Jordan Series Drogue is exactly what is needed for Southern Ocean storm conditions, permitting 'set it and forget it' then sleeping while the storm blows over and through, then recovering and continuing on. After all, hugely-experienced singlehanders Jeanne Socrates and Susanne Huber-Curphey both navigated those same waters, and both sat out several Southern Ocean storms with JSDs out doing just that. And they're far from alone.

I do have a vested interest. My own boat, a Cutlass 27, has a very similar profile but is substantially smaller. The 'big breaking beam sea' that rightly would worry Simon Curwen would worry me too, but the one that would roll me decisively need only be 22' to his 33'.... and I do not intend to go to Point Nemo to check that out!

So, what has Simon tried and found wanting, and what might I do differently in comparable circumstances that might prove beneficial?


Meanwhile, Kirsten once again has a 'bone in her teeth', posting another 200nm day. That 8-hours session overboard with a barnacle scraper is paying off.
She has about 2000nm to run to Round The Horn...... ( and no Kenneth Williams jokes, please! )

 

[ridgy]

I thought the capsize wave had to be only equal to the beam, not what looks like you are saying is LWL. In which case it's a mere 8' for you. Sorry.

 

[zoidberg]

I thought the capsize wave had to be only equal to the beam, not what looks like you are saying is LWL. In which case it's a mere 8' for you. Sorry.

You're 'about right' and my memory of the material was wrong. What is quoted in 'Heavy Weather Sailing, 8th Edition - The Stability of Yachts In Large Breaking Waves' is, in brief:

".... However a 55% LOA breaking wave caused all the models to execute 360 degree rolls when caught beam-on to the wave."

There's rather more in the article, and much more in the research papers from which it is derived. It is very clear that such wave conditions can and do occur frequently whenever a storm occurs in all oceans, and it is not simply the size of the breaking crest which is referenced, but the whole trough-crest height.

It is exactly this circumstance that the JSD was developed to resolve. This is discussed in 'HWS-8' at some length, and elsewhere. There's plenty of evidence from deeply-experienced ocean singlehanders of the efficacy of the device.

.

 

[Yara]

Sooo slow and beset by technical issues. Was looking forward to it but gave up after 25 minutes by which time Tapio had only just started to talk about the rebuild.
I'll know what to listen to next time I'm struggling to get to sleep. Tapio's voice could send anyone off.

Not easy to have technical talk in a foreign language.

So a bit more information. Supports my theory of major rigging tension loads on the hull as a starter.

The new info is that the hull was reinforced up to the forward end of the cockpit, and stopped there. Definitely a stress concentration point.
It is also clear that it was only the main cabin area which was initially flooded. The watertight bulkheads stopped the initial flooding from reaching the fore and aft ends.
So my theory is that there was some kind of slow leak from the engine area, and this was confined to the main cabin. So when Tapio woke to a crack noise, the water in the cabin was already up to his knees. This weight in the centre of the boat, caused more sagging loads, (bending of the ends upwards) adding to the rigging sagging loads. This probably caused a crack to occur in the bottom of the hull at the stress concentration point.
Why would the hull crack? A lot of work was done adding bulkheads. For glassing on old surfaces, usually a solvent is applied to key the surface. Maybe a combination of age, fatigue, solvent, stress concentration, and all the tension loads was just too much...

Tapio said that as she sank the rig still looked tight. A long crack only centimetres wide can let in a lot of water. The genoa was still drawing, so it would pull the forestay slack out, and that can keep the rest of the rig looking tensioned.

 

[Frank Holden]

It looks like Simon has decided on Pto Montt so over 600 miles to go in what could be quite light conditions. This could take a while.

I think he may have been un-nerved by his experience plus race control beating up the prospects of heavier weather in the south. The gribs just look like more of the same to the south from where i am sitting.
Its not as if it would happen a second time now is it ( ask the Smeetons about how that works out ).

 

[zoidberg]

I think he may have been un-nerved by his experience plus race control beating up the prospects of heavier weather in the south. The gribs just look like more of the same to the south from where i am sitting.
Its not as if it would happen a second time now is it ( ask the Smeetons about how that works out ).

Yup. And he doesn't have a 'Beryl' to hold it all together while he finds the galv nails and hammer....

Still, that first cold beer, even though it's Chilean, will taste good.

 

[zoidberg]

For Frank H.

What's your take on the JSD and heavy weather handling?

 

[Frank Holden]

Well people seem to like them. I have carried a pair of 'Seabrakes' for 20 years and never used them.

Have lain ahull/bare poles twice. Once overnight in 40something south, about 120W while waiting for a low - that was giving us northerlies with a nasty sea on the beam - not a heavy sea, just a nasty sea- to pass over us and give us back our SWlys.
The other time was off Puerto Deseado in I think late April, not much sea but SW gale with sleet. After about 24 hour put a FI sticker on the project and ran back to Mar del Plata.
So no real opinion on the JSD.

Having spent some years observing yachts assorted coming across the Sopac - and meeting a few traumatised skippers in Pto Williams - I reckon the secret of survival is to get down to the latitude of the Horn fairly early ( how early is the question) and don't end up coming south in the NWlies that are squeezed and intensified by the Andes. It is the NW sea over the SW swell that brings people undone.

I would never consider taking my boat direct to the Horn from the west - I'm a bit of a sook.
My heavy weather running is invariably done with just a 50sq ft storm jib on the inner forestay - its worked so far.

 

[zoidberg]

Having spent some years observing yachts assorted coming across the Sopac - and meeting a few traumatised skippers in Pto Williams - I reckon the secret of survival is to get down to the latitude of the Horn fairly early ( how early is the question) and don't end up coming south in the NWlies that are squeezed and intensified by the Andes. It is the NW sea over the SW swell that brings people undone.

It will be interesting to see what Kirsten - and Abhilash - do.

I'm very much reminded of the trite but true aphorism - 'In order to finish first, you've first got to finish.'

My heavy weather running is invariably done with just a 50sq ft storm jib on the inner forestay - its worked so far.

That's helpful for me to hoist in, and 'think on't' proportionately.

¡Muchas gracias!

Question on your W'Sealord with an inner forestay/inner staysail, if I may....

Is this setup as per a conventional cutter rig, with the inner stay secured about 2/3-ish mast height - needing runners - or a 'slutter' setup with the stay taken to about 95% mast height where the people at Selden suggest runners may not be needed?

 

[zoidberg]

For Ridgy #330.... and any others who paused to query this:

the one that would roll me decisively need only be 22' to his 33'....

As registered later, Ridgy was right to call attention to those numbers. I had misremembered.
Recalculated with the aid of HWS Ed.8, the more accurate figures are 15' and 20' respectively - while bearing in mind these relate to the FULL breaking wave height, trough-crest, not just the breaking section.

Those figures are found rather often in all the oceans, are more frequent in the vicinity of continental shelf edges and where ocean current runs counter to wind-induced seas and swell.

 

[Frank Holden]

It will be interesting to see what Kirsten - and Abhilash - do.

I'm very much reminded of the trite but true aphorism - 'In order to finish first, you've first got to finish.'



That's helpful for me to hoist in, and 'think on't' proportionately.

¡Muchas gracias!

Question on your W'Sealord with an inner forestay/inner staysail, if I may....

Is this setup as per a conventional cutter rig, with the inner stay secured about 2/3-ish mast height - needing runners - or a 'slutter' setup with the stay taken to about 95% mast height where the people at Selden suggest runners may not be needed?

Pretty conventional in that it goes to the upper spreaders and needs runners.
Tacked just aft of the capstan so that isn't really pure cutter nor slutter.
I can't imagine going to sea without the ability to set a storm jib.
There is nothing worse than a scrap of jib on a roller furler 20 feet above the deck when heading down hill in a blow.

I thought slutter was like my old Vertue, tacked maybe 6 inches aft of the forestay and to 2/3rd of mast height and that the one to almost masthead was 'solent rig'.

 

[zoidberg]

Pretty conventional in that it goes to the upper spreaders and needs runners.
Tacked just aft of the capstan so that isn't really pure cutter nor slutter.
I can't imagine going to sea without the ability to set a storm jib.
There is nothing worse than a scrap of jib on a roller furler 20 feet above the deck when heading down hill in a blow.

I thought slutter was like my old Vertue, tacked maybe 6 inches aft of the forestay and to 2/3rd of mast height and that the one to almost masthead was 'solent rig'.

Thanks, Frank. That's the sort of input I glean to shape my 'way to go' on many boaty matters.... and I've been 'gleaning' for years.

As for 'terminology' I must confess to an exotic form of dyslexia when it comes to mast and sails. My 'I', 'J' and 'J' terms are hopelessly entangled. When it comes to 'ISP' and 'TPS' I have an attack of the catatonics!

My wee boat has been retrofitted with what, by the above yardsticks, would best be called 'solent rig'.
Both stays have furling sails, in consequence of age, arthritic knees and alzheimers. Setting of a proper wee storm jib requires an independent arrangement, which is hoisted to a point a little above the (single) spreader - which is about where the mainsail head in 3rd reef mode comes. I do have twin lowers and can also rig 'runners' to that point.

Shuld I need to reduce sail below that, I have a Prayer Mat.