Getting more chain into the locker?

[cpedw]

Every winter, I try to devise a way to get more chain to fall into the chain locker without assistance. The boat is a Westerly Falcon with chain locker under the windlass right forward so the chain locker is a narrow upside down pyramid wedge shape. Currently we have 35m of 8mm chain but only the first 25m can be relied on to go in smoothly. I would prefer to be able to accommodate 50m. I think there's enough room for more chain if only it would spread round the locker more evenly.

Previous efforts have used fixed obstacles under the very short hawse pipe to try to divert the chain but they have not been very successful. They are difficult to fix in place because of the shape of the locker and access into it. They also get in the way when trying to shift the heap of chain using the windlass handle poked through the hawse pipe.

This winter's musing came up with the idea of a windscreen wiper motor fixed under the windlass and slowly driving an arm shaped a bit like a tuning fork to and fro to scatter the chain about in the locker. I can already think of several aspects of this scheme needing close consideration but I wonder if anyone has tried something similar, or something very different that works?

Here's hoping,
Derek

 

[Boathook]

There is this at Force 4. A lot of money but I'm not sure that it would be suitable for your locker. There was a thread on this a while back I seem to remember.

http://www.force4.co.uk/department/...g-mooring/force-4-chain-boy.html#.VKlj23tr024

 

[pcatterall]

One suggestion was a small road cone which forces the chain to the sides of the locker. Some forumites claimed this worked well

 

[Coaster]

I presume your chain locker is similar to ours. We have a Westerly Seahawk 34. The Falcon is one or the nine models (or thereabouts) based on the Seahawk hull.

We fit in 45m of 8mm chain. The last few metres are sometimes reluctant to flake down. Consequently I made a poker from 10mm galvanised steel rod, to the maximum length that would stow in the anchor windlass well. If the chain piles up too much it takes a few seconds to halt the windlass, insert the poker, push the top of the pyramid sideways, remove the poker and resume winding in chain.

Simple but effective.

 

[TQA]

I presume your chain locker is similar to ours. We have a Westerly Seahawk 34. The Falcon is one or the nine models (or thereabouts) based on the Seahawk hull.

We fit in 45m of 8mm chain. The last few metres are sometimes reluctant to flake down. Consequently I made a poker from 10mm galvanised steel rod, to the maximum length that would stow in the anchor windlass well. If the chain piles up too much it takes a few seconds to halt the windlass, insert the poker, push the top of the pyramid sideways, remove the poker and resume winding in chain.

Simple but effective.

+ 1

 

[MARNEN]

I have a similar problem. When 2 handed one of us is able to access the chain locker from the fore cabin and flake the chain a bit.
We find just knocking the pyramid of chain over makes it sometimes impossible to get the chain out again from on deck.
I intend to fix a small ish road cone to a piece of timber and fix it in the chain locker.

 

[cpedw]

One suggestion was a small road cone which forces the chain to the sides of the locker. Some forumites claimed this worked well

I'm familiar with this scheme but our chain locker has steep sides and the chain entrance is off-centre, making it difficult to get a diverter to stay in the right place.

 

[cpedw]

I presume your chain locker is similar to ours. We have a Westerly Seahawk 34. The Falcon is one or the nine models (or thereabouts) based on the Seahawk hull.

We fit in 45m of 8mm chain. The last few metres are sometimes reluctant to flake down. Consequently I made a poker from 10mm galvanised steel rod, to the maximum length that would stow in the anchor windlass well. If the chain piles up too much it takes a few seconds to halt the windlass, insert the poker, push the top of the pyramid sideways, remove the poker and resume winding in chain.

Simple but effective.

I think our locker is the same as the Seahawk's. We currently use that approach, though the poker is the windlass handle - a longer poker could be accommodated and would I expect be more effective. I'm still hoping for a solution that needs less intervention though.

 

[vyv_cox]

Two approaches, not sure if one is applicable to your boat. When I fitted my windlass I took some trouble to place it so that the fall of chain was maximised, in the end cutting the locker lid, fixing and strengthening the forward part and installing the windlass on it. The fall is now to the lowest part of the locker. I can get about 35 metres of chain in before needing to redistribute the pile. I realise that you have a hawse pipe but is it possible to redirect the fall using a pulley of some sort?

The other way is to use stainless steel chain. This is far more slippery than galvanised, helping it to stow itself in a low profile pile at the bottom of the locker. It's an expensive option but it works.

 

[RupertW]

I think our locker is the same as the Seahawk's. We currently use that approach, though the poker is the windlass handle - a longer poker could be accommodated and would I expect be more effective. I'm still hoping for a solution that needs less intervention though.

We also use a stick - in my case a long handled deck brush with an upside down coat hook bolted on so I can lift the chain across to flake it so it doesn't come up in a pyramid and block.

A couple of years ago I replaced the very rusty chain (35m) with a longer one (60m) and spent £700 on it. I really regret not going crazy on the money front and paying 4 x that for 80m of slinky stainless steel. Hard to think of a single other silly priced purchase which would have transformed our sailing so much. But I still can't bring myself to get rid of the new(ish) chain and spend out on the stainless steel now.

 

[Cspirit]

We have a Westerly Corsair which, when we bought her, had about 30 metres of 8mm chain - original equipment I assume. We needed more and heavier chain so we fitted 60 metres of 10mm. Although this fits in the locker it will always pile up and block the hawse pipe. We have tried without real success the 'upended traffic cone' and 'pokey stick' methods but now whenever we up anchor we have a crew member to flake the chain from the forward cabin berth. We are in the Med so we do this at least once a day and can do it with a crew of two - one flaker, on on the helm and the windlass remote. Not an ideal arrangement, but it works for us and means that we can have good ground tackle. I investigated increasing the size of the chain locker by opening up the under berth area to increase chain fall and stowage, but it seemed to me to be too big and disruptive a job for to little gain.

 

[charles_reed]

Ed Dubois designs have a fairly easy entry and their balance easily upset by too much weight up forward - certainly 60m of 10mm chain appears to be overkill, even for a 36' boat.
I had 65m of 8mm on a boat of similar waterline length to the Corsair (but about 35% of the design weight), I've ditched 15m of that and transformed performance to windward.
As I sail single-handed, anchoring >100+ times a season, and watching my fellow yachties, I've come to the conclusion that the most important part of the complex system of anchoring is the competence of the anchorer, anchor design, chain type and length, rode mix are all far less important.
Key to all this is having handleable weight of gear - I wonder how anyone fancies getting up 60m of 10mm chain and a 25kg anchor, entirely by hand?
In answer to the OP. Use a prodder - involves someone being up front to prod and totally unsafe for single-handers trying to get their anchor in to avoid being run down by run-of-the-mill anchorers.
One of the arguments for bigger not being better!!

Stainless chain "flows" much better than ordinary galvanised - a rather pricey method of solving the OP's problem.

PS After 3 drags last season, I came to the reluctant conclusion that the 25lb CQR was worn out (Hinge pin 40% of bearing area). I've replaced it with a roll-bar, concave anchor of the same weight and have teamed it with 50m 8mm chain and 100m of nylon octoplait. Even in shallow anchorages I always use mixed textile and chain, the latter transformed how the boat lay at anchor in >F5.

 

[UncleAlbert]

I have made my own 'mushroom' from a few laminates of Ply glued together and turned in a drill stand/lathe then painted with gloss paint to make it slippery. I have installed it today on a sloping shelf in the locker of my Centaur. The 35 mtrs of galvanised chain presently residing on the ground will be manually windlassed into the locker in the next couple of days (when I get around to it) I shall report on its efficacy in due course. Patents are of course pending!!!

I tried an upside down funnel and the top of a traffic cone but the complex cutting and shaping to enable it to be supported in the locker firmly, beat me.
Unc

 

[mtb]

my colvic had the original hawse pipe down one side in the bows to a space infront of the water tank. I brought the boat and on the run back from salcomb I anchored ready to go on shore but a big swell started so I thought err no time to leave only to find the anchor stuck hard and it was not a good time re that swell building ! I struggled like hell and shifted it by pulling on the chain snagging it to the bollard then waiting for the swell to do its stuff it was while my back was suffering I dicided right then it would be on my must do jobs list, to fit a winch
I bided my time and waited for an sl winch to come up on ebay at the right price ;-) once I had the winch on the boat I could see it meant changing the lay out inside the bows to line up the chain with the bow roller the sl winch has a hawse ring below the chain feed which has to line up with the bow roller or you risk problems just when you really shouldn't !
The colvic had silly bunks high up then a shelf under that in the bows. I thought it was to much like hard work even getting into a bunk so lowered it all, and did away with the shelf. This meant I could sort out the anchor locker, it had to be water tight strong and simple, I came up with the idea of a wheely bin. I got a bin cut the wheels off then dicided on depth, this had to be as much as possible to counter act the snagging of chain but also deep enough to fit a water tight locker door. Once I dicided on how deep I wanted it I cut it all round finding that the hard plastic was quite thick making it strong as well.
The door came from ebay and was just the right size to open up and allow cleaning or bailing out of any build up of water. I set the door so that theres a few inches below the bottom of the door, incase of water comming in either with the chain or the green stuff over the bows

Fitting the bin was simple I screwed through from in and out around the top of the bin sandwiching the plastic with 4"x2" wood which I screwed and glassed up to the deck making it water tight and strong to take the wieght
The bunks gone meant I could use the whole bow as a large double so after thought and compromise I set the hieght so one can get feet through past the bin it isnt a perfect set up but I've had no problems
of chain tangles the winch is set behind the new large cleat and inline so the chain goes out or back in ok with the bin centre right below to let the chain drop straight down I can still manage to squeeze under the bin to fit new things like a big heavy duty cleat which I mounted on top of a decent block of hard wood, Ive yet to get heather to make a canvas cover for the winch not that in 18months theres been any rain water building up inside the bin comming through the winch hawse hole
The last job on the bows is to fit a Self stowing/launching bow anchor fitting this is to rid the bows deck area of the anchor keeping it out of the way. An anchor plus chain which is laid across the the deck is just to risky

 

[cpedw]

I'm getting the impression that no-one is impressed by my windscreen wiper proposal. A longer poker currently seems favourite but ...

I have made my own 'mushroom' from a few laminates of Ply glued together and turned in a drill stand/lathe then painted with gloss paint to make it slippery. I have installed it today on a sloping shelf in the locker of my Centaur. The 35 mtrs of galvanised chain presently residing on the ground will be manually windlassed into the locker in the next couple of days (when I get around to it) I shall report on its efficacy in due course. Patents are of course pending!!!

I tried an upside down funnel and the top of a traffic cone but the complex cutting and shaping to enable it to be supported in the locker firmly, beat me.
Unc

Yes, I've been there with the funnel and cone - never in the right place to help. If your mushroom works, I might consider that instead of a refined poker.

Thank to all for your thoughts.
Derek

 

[NormanS]

But do all these funnels, mushrooms and cones not just reduce the available volume for the chain? I know that with mine, when the chain is coming in, it very soon builds up into a cone, all by itself. This then spreads the chain around.

 

[UncleAlbert]

Ah, but the pyramid the chain creates supports itself until it gets to the bottom of the hawse pipe, then of course your are stuffed. There is of course lots of spare space surrounding said pyramid in the rest of the locker. Clearly chain is a gregarious beast not wanting to sit on its own

 

[pathfinder]

I had a similiar problem when I increased my 8mm chain from 30 to 60 metres having no deck access to the anchor locker.The only solution for me was to fit a 6'' inspection hatch on deck,thru which I can reach in and topple the chain pile.I added a lanyard to secure the lid when open and marked it to make it easier to line up the thread when screwing it closed.Has worked great so far and cost around a tenner iirc.

 

[martinriches]

Ah, but the pyramid the chain creates supports itself until it gets to the bottom of the hawse pipe, then of course your are stuffed. There is of course lots of spare space surrounding said pyramid in the rest of the locker. Clearly chain is a gregarious beast not wanting to sit on its own

How then does rope behave? I am trying to work out what combination of rope and chain to go for.

Martin

 

[UncleAlbert]

Well windlassed (?) all 30 mtrs of chain into its locker today and the initial 20 -25 meters found its way onto and around the newly installed mushroom. Then it got itself back into its normal habit. This seemed to be because the original lot had fallen of to on side only and then this had piled up on the shelf upon which the mushroom is mounted and it continued to pile on itself. As the boat is on its trailer and therefore there is no sea generated rocking and rolling I think the uneven distribution is a factor.

I shall persivere and sea if it works when afloat.

Rating of my effort so far......................Bit like the curates egg.............good in parts, work still in progress