Germany to France boat relocation advice

[jbk]

Hi all, I'm considering purchasing a small sports boat that resides in Germany (EU VAT paid) and relocating & reregistering the boat in France, where I'm resident. 8m boat with 2.5m beam, is already on a 3T trailer.

I'm to get all of my admin in line so that the process can be as smooth as it can be. Can anyone help and or advise on what needs to be done, what I may have forgotten, etc. Any help appreciated, this seems to potentially be quite the operation!

My current list of things that need to be done is as follows:

1. Purchase of the German boat
a. agree with seller on, and sign, a sale/exchange contract
- does the sale need to be 'registered' somehow in Germany, and if so how?
- does the boat need to be 'de-registered' as a German boat, and if so how?
- any other German admin need to be done?
b. manufacturers certificate of compliance with RCD (or RCD II ?), but this boat is a model before '94?
c. CE standard certificate?
d. Boat Safety Scheme Certificate?
e. EU VAT paid proof - certainly (how to check that this will be accepted at French customs import?)
e. get copies, or originals, of registration certificates.
f. any maintenance or works invoices, any other docs that come with the boat at all.

2. Transport from Germany - France:
(boat comes with and is already on 3T trailer)
a. make sure rig is legal - weight, dimentsions, towing capacity, and safe. (Spare parts)
- or is it easier to ship the boat
- I can find lorry shippers easily but that's overkill
- where can i find someone with high capacity towing vehicle to tow the existing rig as it does not need support vehicles or oversize permits.
b. what documentation do I need to have?:
- license for towing this weight (Already have)
- insurance
- sale documents
- EU VAT paid documents
c. Will i at the border immediately have to stop enter a customs office and 'declare importation'?
- how do i do this?
- how do I 110% ensure that my EU VAT paid docs will be accepted before I do this?
- do I need to declare not only import, but registration at this point, is registering the same as importing?
- do I need some boating competency certificate on hand to do this?

3. Import into France & Registration in France:
a. Will i at the border immediately have to stop enter a customs office and 'declare importation'?
- how do i do this?
- how do I 110% ensure that my EU VAT paid docs will be accepted before I do this?
- do I need to declare not only import, but registration at this point, is registering the same as importing?
- do I need some boating competency certificate on hand to do this?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Roberto]

Sorry I do not know about Germany, a few things to consider in France (assuming it is for sea use, not inland):
1. You need a radiation certificate from the German authority, this has to be shown to "Affaires Maritimes" in France to register under French flag. The other documents are listed here:
https://www.mer.gouv.fr/sites/defau...ncisation-navires-de-plaisance_4p_DEF_Web.pdf
For all registration activities, I suggest to only look at French official sites (.gouv.fr): procedures are free they can all be done by oneself and mostly online (Google search first pages offer many web sites "registration bateau" which are all commercial, up to you to see if you need help for a fee or not.
Acheter, vendre, enregistrer des navires de plaisance pour naviguer en mer
2. As a resident in France, you are submitted to French boating rules whatever your Nationality (or boat flag): in particular if yours is a motorboat and if engine >6hp you will need a French "Permis bateau", there are two "côtier" and "hauturier" the difference is you are entitled to sail farther than 6nm from a safe haven. Getting them is quite straightforward (some hours of school practice and a theoretical exam), or you can ask the conversion from a foreign permit (FWIW with my YM I got the conversion to hauturier straight away, I needed a French title to apply for the French inland waterways permit). No permit needed for sailboats, whatever the engine power.
3. If you have a VHF onboard:
3a. You need a radio operator certificate: you can use directly a UK/German SRC certificate (no conversion needed) or you can take the CRR examination in France (again, very straightforward, all details www.anfr.fr --> Radiomaritime --> CRR ), CRR=SRC, French habit of changing all labels, though to be fair they also write "Short Range Certificate" words on it
3b. You need a French radio licence: once you have your French boat registration number you can apply for a "licence de navire" +MMSI etc, it's all free, it can be done very quickly online, first issue, licence modification, etc. Licence is valid one year, near the end of calendar year you will be able to download the one for the following year. Again it's all free, no need to pay anyone any fees.
4.What you will have to pay is the yearly tax (formerly called DAFN), it's all being made feasible online through a recent "portail demarches plaisance", you register your name and will be sent an email with the details.

add, just seen some of your other questions, re Points 3.
You can bring the boat into France and make all paperwork later, no need to stop at the border BTW, you could also keep forever your boat under German flag (do Germany require residence?), except as I said as a resident you will be subject to French rules, in particular the "permis bateau" if motorboat; you will have to pay the yearly tax as well, the amount will be the same as if the boat was under French flag. Radio licence follows the flag of the boat.
No need of any competence certificate to register a boat under your name.
Registration/importation: they used to be very tied until a few yers ago (the Douanes were handling basically everything), now all the registration process has been given to Affaires Maritimes, depending on the type of boat documents you have, you might have to ask the Douanes beforehand. In general, a radiation certificate from a EU country is enough (except Holland), better if you have the original purchase documents showing VAT paid status.

 

[jbk]

Thanks Roberto, that's very helpful. So:
(context; this will be a saltwater coastal boat | this is a 94 build boat)

- make sure to get a 'Certificate of Radiation' from the German authorities where the boat's current registration is - perhaps ask for current owners help with this.
- Re competency for driving boat in french waters I have some RYA Yachtmaster certs, which I've just applied for an International Certificate of Competence with which will apparently cover me for competency equivalence in France.
- Noted re. the radio certs - I've got a short range certificate from RYA, so all I need to do is get my radio license - I'll get applying for that as soon as I have the boat reg'd in France.
- Noted re the DAFN tax.
- Noted re. being able to keep the boat under German flag. France & Germany both in the EU, does it hold that so long as it is flagged under and EU flag, which it is, it can reside in any EU country, for as long as I wish it to?
- Noted re. being able to drive through border, don't I need to declare and import at that stage or anything.

Thanks again, getting there, i think!

 

[john_morris_uk]

Not sure what you mean by, “I have some Yachtmaster Certificates”? Can you explain?

 

[jbk]

Not sure what you mean by, “I have some Yachtmaster Certificates”? Can you explain?

I'm qualified by the UK RYA (Royal Yachting Association) as a Yachtmaster, and my certificates are translatable into an ICC (International Certificate of Competency) which will (should!) be recognised by French authorities for this type of vessel in French coastal waters.

 

[Roberto]

In France, the equivalence is ok for automatically recognized certificates obtained abroad (like the UK Short Range Certificate), you may continue use your existing equivalent foreign certificates coming under this scheme on a French registered boat. I once asked the conversion of my Italian VHF certificate and they said "no, it cannot be converted because it's automatically valid" (but as it was an old non-dsc certificate I then passed the French CRR).
Boat "operator" national certificates are a different matter, equivalence/automatic recognition may be quite different depending on the two Nations concerned, if they have implemented international agreements etc: if you have a YM or ICC and come to France as a tourist and want to rent a motorboat I am pretty sure it will be accepted; being a resident is different. For example, France do not issue ICCs, I am not sure if they recognize foreign ICCs or not. In these cases, you may ask for a conversion of your existing title into a French "permis", fill a form and pay a small fee it takes a few weeks, you will of course retain the original. Also, check what your French insurance company policy is re permits. As I said, an offshore YM will most likely be converted into a "permis hauturier", even if there is no "motor" mention.
BTW, one of the purposes of French leisure navigation law modification of 2016 (which extended French national law to all residents, whatever Nationality or boat flag) was exactly to counter the increasing number of jetskis/powerful motorboats being registered under Belgian flag by French nationals in order not to have to pass a boat driving permit exam (it was not because of tax reasons, foreign flag boats being owned by French residents have alwasy been subject to the DAFN, it has just a different name "droit de passeport").

 

[jbk]

In France, the equivalence is ok for automatically recognized certificates obtained abroad (like the UK Short Range Certificate), you may continue use your existing equivalent foreign certificates coming under this scheme on a French registered boat. I once asked the conversion of my Italian VHF certificate and they said "no, it cannot be converted because it's automatically valid" (but as it was an old non-dsc certificate I then passed the French CRR).
Boat "operator" national certificates are a different matter, equivalence/automatic recognition may be quite different depending on the two Nations concerned, if they have implemented international agreements etc: if you have a YM or ICC and come to France as a tourist and want to rent a motorboat I am pretty sure it will be accepted; being a resident is different. For example, France do not issue ICCs, I am not sure if they recognize foreign ICCs or not. In these cases, you may ask for a conversion of your existing title into a French "permis", fill a form and pay a small fee it takes a few weeks, you will of course retain the original. Also, check what your French insurance company policy is re permits. As I said, an offshore YM will most likely be converted into a "permis hauturier", even if there is no "motor" mention.
BTW, one of the purposes of French leisure navigation law modification of 2016 (which extended French national law to all residents, whatever Nationality or boat flag) was exactly to counter the increasing number of jetskis/powerful motorboats being registered under Belgian flag by French nationals in order not to have to pass a boat driving permit exam (it was not because of tax reasons, foreign flag boats being owned by French residents have alwasy been subject to the DAFN, it has just a different name "droit de passeport").

Thanks Roberto, very helpful. Hopefully this thread will be a good resource for others in similar situations .

 

[st599]

France isn't a signatory of the ICC convention - they may not legally recognise them.

 

[jbk]

France isn't a signatory of the ICC convention - they may not legally recognise them.

Ah darn, ok, well it'll be interesting to see whether in practice they do or not, hopefully I'll never get a 'controle' therefore will nevver need to know.