Genoa position

[Alan_B]

Hi all,

I recently bought a Hunter Europa. Quick question regarding the genoa and how it is rigged. (Masthead rig)

Its hanked on to the forestay, and there is room for it to be pulled right up for the top, leaving ~ 1ft at the foot of the sail so it wont catch the bow rails (using some rope to secure / tension it to the eye on the deck.)

Alternatively, I can use a snap shackle to attach the foot straight to the eye on the deck which looks better, but then will foul the bow rail when tacking, and means going forward each time to skirt it. There are no guard lines fitted at present.

The other thing is, with the first option, the sail is then against the spreaders when close hauled, whereas with the second this is true but to a lesser extent.

Coming from a fifteen with fraction rig and roller furling I have never really paid much attention to this before as I was more interested in mast position / rake / prebend etc and it made sense for the jib to be attached directly to the roller.

Any advice on which way is correct?

Cheers

Alan

 

[Alan_B]

And a picture for reference

 

[dunedin]

No "right" or "wrong" answers here. It a race boat would certainly recommend close to the deck for efficiency, many cruisers prefer a bit higher for visibility.
If jammed to the very top will probably close the "slot" too much between genoa and mainsail. Also could possibly jamb up. So I would be tempted to split the difference by a short rope strop at the bottom, to leave 6 inches at both ends

 

[Seajet]

I'd agree with all the above but using a short wire strop and a long captive shackle - long so as to reach the tack cringle from the edge of the sail.

 

[Yacht Yogi]

Er, why does your genoa go outside of the guardwires when you tack? If that's your only concern then a little work on your technique and crew teamwork might make your sailing smoother and less damaging on the sail. Helm needs to give the crew enough time to get the sail sheeted in before it fills on the new side. Will significantly reduce the amount of winch grinding that's going on too.

Not just saying this to be critical since we all, not least me can benefit from continuous learning and improving techniques.

 

[William_H]

I would have the genoa as low as possible. This tends to make a seal between the deck and genoa so reducing end effect losses but perhaps more significantly a low sail means lower centre of pressure so less heeling power when the wind comes up. I don't under stand how the genoa douls the bow rail when tacking. Itwould be inside the bow rail at all times except when running with genoa free. The height of the genoa will affect the ideal sheeting position of the sheet blocks. So up higher willneed s sheet blocks back a bit. Down lower more forward. The ideal position being determined by the tell tails at top and bottom. Both should break when luffing a tthe same time.
In practice if you find it easier to tack with the genoa up higher then do what you find best. I presume you have some tube over the inner forestay to ease the dragging the clew around from one side to the other. good luck olewill

 

[Twister_Ken]

Whatever you do height wise it shouldn't sheet onto the spreaders or eventually you'll chafe a hole in the sail. Ease the sheet until its an inch or two off the spreader tip.

 

[Biggles Wader]

From the pic it looks like the problem is the pullpit which needs to be removed.Its halfway up the foredeck and will be in the way.

 

[Alan_B]

Oh right its not maybe clear in the picture, the forestay is outside the rails, so when you tack the front the sail has to come up and over the bow rail. I have some stuff here sitting to put on the baby stay to protect the sail. Ive only had it out in light wind so far which I expect isnt helping. Oh and no winches, so I'm not forcing anything.

I thought it would be best lower down for performance, Ill maybe try the half and half idea.

Actually, unless I rig it so that the foot is inside the bow rail, but how would that effect it when going downwind because the bottom of the sail will be distorted.

Hope I have explained this ok.

 

[bbg]

Pulpit needs to be moved forward. I can't say I have ever seen a pulpit inside the forestay like you have. That is the major problem.

Once you've got that moved forward (it will probably need to be rebuilt to match the different footprint at the bow) you should be able to keep the genoa close to the deck. That is the preferred option.

As for how the new position of the pulpit will affect the genoa offwind - it will, a bit, but the loss of performance will be negligible compared with the loss of performance (and enjoyment, and safety) of having to go forward every time when you tack.

In short, the genoa is not the problem. The pulpit is. I suggest you move it.

 

[[3889]]

I would think deck level foot is normal, as shown in this other Europa. Bizarre pulpit location though -I can't think why this design was used.
http://www.roundbritain2008.co.uk/images/europa-big.jpg

 

[Alan_B]

Oh joy

In looking at photos online they are all the same, some raise the sail up, some just live with it, some remove the rail alltogether. I'd prefer to have something there to hold on to so removing it I dont think is an option. Time to go down to the yard and suck air through my teeth.

 

[Seajet]

The pulpit location is standard for the Europa, I would guess so as to keep the sail clear of it and any guardrails when beating, also keeps crew weight slightly aft; as it's a highly successful design I imagine it works.

A high clew ' blade ' headsail would seem a good idea, but if you're really having trouble tacking the sail - after getting used to her - you could rig a light line from somewhere up the mast to the headsail clew, with the tail led aft; then haul on this line momentarily to lift the clew as it passes over.

This would require practice and co-ordination, probably by the crew, and would certainly be extra hassle & complication, but may be an idea if all else fails.

I think really it's just a matter of getting used to her; Alan, have you made contact with the Owners Association on Yahoo ? I'm sure they could advise.

Edit; I just looked up the ' Genius Of Oliver Lee ' site here - click ' community ' in the dark bar above forums, ' groups ' , ' Genius Of Oliver Lee ', allow for a delay on each click; it was set up by Little Rascal of these forums, a Europa owner.

The address for the Hunter Owners Association is

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hunter19/

 

[markhomer]

From previous posts i understand you bought boat to race , for racing there is only one option , tack to deck as close as rules allow,and off you go , anything else and you are just going to disadvantage yourself, in races,

There must be hunter 19/europa forums where you can get advice , certainly very good class association site , suggest best place for setting up boat for racing ,

If you want to detune and cruisyfy for other times , good advice here.


Good luck , enjoy



Ps i crewed second place in nationals at ullswater many moons ago . Too long ago to give any specific advice other than go with the flow the boat has been about for ever and its set up so , because it works .

 

[Alan_B]

Hi Seajet,

Ive tried getting on the Owners Association on my ipad but it wouldnt work, when I get home this weekend I'll give it a go on a laptop. Only so much I can get away with in work

I expect that after a few sessions we will be grand with it, just making sure I am not making any basic mistakes.

Me and my sailing buddy work well together so if no hassle when it comes to tweaking methods.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[markhomer]

http://www.hunterclass.com/. From my ipad , when looking on safari i see there is also a facebook site , I searched hunter 19 class association


Good luck

 

[Seajet]

Alan_B,

I've added the link to the Hunter OA address; you'll need to create an account, ie invent a username & password.

May as well put it again here;

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hunter19/

There's something funny about yahoo at the moment though, it asked me to create a new account saying I've been inactive which is wrong...

markhomer is of course quite right about setting the headsail to sweep the deck for max efficiency; maybe I'm getting old but I find the lack of visibility too high a price to pay, and I need all the help I can get spotting marks be they nav or racing !

 

[mrming]

You can see here:

...that the Europa's genoa is sheeted outside the pulpit. As Seajet says, this is unusual, but obviously by design. I've never sailed a Europa but they have a good reputation as a sailing boat and I don't think you need to go moving the pulpit.

As to the tack height, you can see the boat's original sail plan here, and the tack looks to be 3 or 4 inches off the deck:

 

[Alan_B]

Ive created an account but I seem to end up going in circles without actually getting anywhere. I'll try it again though.

I can live with the lack of visibility, I need every last bit of speed out of her that I can get.

 

[Seajet]

Oliver Lee would be proud !