generator

[mad_boater]

Any one know what it would cost to have a generator 6/8 kva installed in a princess 35.The boat I am looking to buy has the usual calorifier and 12 /240v fridge which from past exprience soon runs the batteries flat for more than 1 night out.

 

[Anthony]

6-8 kva is quite large, are you sure you need one that big (expensive / heavy), is it just to run fridge and immersion heater?

Ants

 

[mad_boater]

Due to the fridge caning the batteries like it did on my old boat even though I fitted a new £400.00 state of the art fridge and having 5x85 ah batteries which soon gave up after 24 hrs I thought a generator would be worth fitting.

 

[carlton]

I once had an American RV with a 4.5kva genny. It ran the fridge, freezer, aircon, battery charger, kettle, etc. simultaneously without missing a beat.

What will you be running to need 6-8kva?

You'd prob'ly manage nicely with something about 2kva - something like this would do the trick...

£349 on fleabay

 

[Garold]

Try speaking to Rod at Advance yacht systems, 023-8033-7722 (google them too). He's very knowledgeable and helpful.

He just fitted a Paguro 6000 genny to our new catamaran. Our boat is not actually back in the water yet to run it up so I can't give you any feedback on noise from the two cylinder yet (compared to our lst genny which was single cyclinder). However, they fitted a 4kw genny on our last boat. Tidiest and most professional people that I've come across so far in the marine leisure industry.

Rod is an engineer and will go through your needs before suggesting a suitable genny. They also do every other aspect of electrical equipment. They fitted extra batteries, invertor etc for us (on last boat too).

Great VFM but not 'cheap'. But for me, when I'm on the boat I definitely have never had satisfaction from 'cheap' anything.

If you want to see the quality of their install, our boat (Lagoon 400) will be displayed in the Portsmouth Multihull Show in mid June.

I am aware that I'm skulking as a raggie amongst you guys, but us multi-hullers have no loyalty either way!

Cheers

Garold

 

[crazy4557]

You've just caught me midway through installing a 6KVA generator on my boat. To give you an idea of ballpark costs so far:

I bought a 2nd hand genset - Fischer Panda cost £2500.00
Parts i.e exhaust pipe/seacocks/water strainer/battery/water seperator etc etc approx £600.00
Labour to fit approx £750.00

I reckon on £4k done and running.

I've done a lot of the running around to get bits etc so above costs would'nt include someone's cost for this element.

 

[mad_boater]

Thanks for all your replies,most usefull.

 

[jparham]

My 5KVA genset runs the kettle and A/C (and charges the batteries).
£6K and £2Kfitting. I agree with others - you're looking a couple of KVA too many. You only need a 2 cylinder jobby with a robust converter, if you have A/C...
Unfortunately current A/C units need one hell of a kick to get them started, but not so much once running, so I cold probably have gotten by with a 4KVA if it wasn't for that instantaneous current draw. Also, some of the more esoteric genset charge circuits struggle to supply large inductive loads, so type of genset is important aswell.

 

[hlb]

Any one know what it would cost to have a generator 6/8 kva installed in a princess 35.The boat I am looking to buy has the usual calorifier and 12 /240v fridge which from past exprience soon runs the batteries flat for more than 1 night out.

Yonks ago fridges used to cain batteries. But my P35 of 88 vintage, happily runs for two or three days, without input. WE use the boat year round. In the winter we bring out the little Honda, to cope with the heating and stuff. We might use a gallon of petrol a year. OK it will jib at the water heating, if not caught early. It's only main use is to keep the heating fans going. As far as I know, the fridge is original. Ok there are limitations, on how much stuff you can run at once. But we never found it so far.

So unless your running a washing machine, or whatever, you hardly need anything, but the little Honda. Humm, weve been out two nights, with no power at all. Reminds me, better find the dog.

 

[AndieMac]

If you want to see the quality of their install, our boat (Lagoon 400) will be displayed in the Portsmouth Multihull Show in mid June.

Last weekend I was aboard a newish (2008) 38' Lagoon (380), must admit I was very impressed. Well set out boat, especially the 'owners' version heads/shower area. Very clever use of space, and nice to see the galley up on the bridge-deck.

 

[mjf]

Try speaking to Rod at Advance yacht systems, 023-8033-7722 (google them too). He's very knowledgeable and helpful.

He just fitted a Paguro 6000 genny to our new catamaran. Our boat is not actually back in the water yet to run it up so I can't give you any feedback on noise from the two cylinder yet (compared to our lst genny which was single cyclinder). However, they fitted a 4kw genny on our last boat. Tidiest and most professional people that I've come across so far in the marine leisure industry.

Rod is an engineer and will go through your needs before suggesting a suitable genny. They also do every other aspect of electrical equipment. They fitted extra batteries, invertor etc for us (on last boat too).

Great VFM but not 'cheap'. But for me, when I'm on the boat I definitely have never had satisfaction from 'cheap' anything.

If you want to see the quality of their install, our boat (Lagoon 400) will be displayed in the Portsmouth Multihull Show in mid June.

I am aware that I'm skulking as a raggie amongst you guys, but us multi-hullers have no loyalty either way!

Cheers

Garold

I too would endorse Rod and Co at Advanced yacht systems.

They did my install last year (see my post on same in nov I think with pix too!).

Top notch job and great people with whom to deal.

I also think the OP idea is OTT in terms to Kva needed.

 

[Latestarter1]

Fischer Panda & Paguro generators

Please please think twice before investing in these little toy generators, they are trouble with a capital T.

I know they are inexpensive and compact when compared with units from mainstream US manufacturers for example Kohler, Northern Lights, Onan etc, but you only get what you pay for.

Farymann and Lombardini engines used by the above bear no comparison with small Japanese engines used by U.S generator builders. and the generator ends are pure throw away once they fail, which they will.

Just search on 'Farymann' on this site alone to get a taste of what I am saying.

 

[Garold]

Latestarter, had a bad experience?

You may be right. But then again, you may just have an opinion.

We had a motor boat with an Onan generator. Not new granted, but less than 5 years old. In three years we never had it running reliably. Struggled to get some parts too.

As for our Paguro on the last boat, it never missed a beat in two years. Maybe the newer ones are more reliable? I'm no engineer so I can only go off my experience.

We may have just been lucky, but the Paguro seemed fine to me. I think that they sell well too. Installed in many European yachts.

But maybe the quality of the instal makes a difference. And don't dismiss the value of 'compact'. On some yachts space is very limited.

I shall keep my fingers crossed. And if I have problems I shall fess up!

Cheers

Garold

 

[rafiki_]

Please please think twice before investing in these little toy generators, they are trouble with a capital T.

I know they are inexpensive and compact when compared with units from mainstream US manufacturers for example Kohler, Northern Lights, Onan etc, but you only get what you pay for.

Farymann and Lombardini engines used by the above bear no comparison with small Japanese engines used by U.S generator builders. and the generator ends are pure throw away once they fail, which they will.

Just search on 'Farymann' on this site alone to get a taste of what I am saying.

US manufacturers tend to use US brand engines, most of which are made in South America or China. Kohler definitely use their own, many of the other with use Tucumseh or Briggs and Stratton. Jap engines will tend to be used in Jap brand gennies, Honda, Suzuki etc. Are they any good? Not sure, but I am sure that others on this forum will have some handy experience. I am also juggling with more batteries v small gennie. The only thing putting me off the small gennie is the petrol thing, on an otherwise diesel/electric boat.

 

[Latestarter1]

US manufacturers tend to use US brand engines, most of which are made in South America or China. Kohler definitely use their own, many of the other with use Tucumseh or Briggs and Stratton. Jap engines will tend to be used in Jap brand gennies, Honda, Suzuki etc. Are they any good? Not sure, but I am sure that others on this forum will have some handy experience. I am also juggling with more batteries v small gennie. The only thing putting me off the small gennie is the petrol thing, on an otherwise diesel/electric boat.

Sorry Rafki subject was diesel generators.

The leading makes I mentioned use Shibura (Perkins) Kubota and Yanmar. Mitsubishi are also popular. All come from Japan and are 100% robust high hour engines. Generator ends from the big three are all totally repairable with 20 year parts support. Onan are blood brothers with Newage from UK.

Plese do not confuse gasoline throw away gennies with this stuff.

 

[photodog]

There are a whole bunch of things you can do short of spending 5k on a gennie which will just use more deisel... create fumes... make noise... cost more in maintanence...

It never ceases to amaze me that with the Mobo brigade the first answer to any power problems seems to be to generate more by burning more fuel!

You need to think about how you use the power.. how you store the power... and then finally how you create it....

Here are some suggestions;

1) Reduce consumption; Replace all the interior lighting with LEDS... Ensure the fridge is properly insulated... Dont put warm things in it.... add a block of ice before you get going.
2) Batteries; is using a whole bunch of small batteries the best answer?? Someone can tell us I am sure the definitive answer but I would have though maybe 2 or 3 large 140-200 amp batteries might be better... Are they properly maintaned and charged when you are on shore power.... are they in good shape full stop??
3) Charging; are you getting all the power into the batteries that you can when you are charging them?? We had major issues last season... and I discovered that the plug in on my shore power was crapped out.... Do you have a good multi-stage charger for the batteries when they are on shore power charge?? Do you monitor the batts properly or wait until they are crapped out and then try to charge off the engine?? How big is your alternator on the engine that you are charging with... A better quality alternator from Balmar will work wonders with getting power into your batteries.... AT a cost far below a generator.

4) and finally... alternate charging methods.... for £1000 you could get a couple of decent roll up solar panels.. and these might just do the trick to keep you going for longer.... Certainly in the right conditions they should be able to keep the fridge ticking over.


Before dropping a load of dosh on a gennny..I would suggest you look at better managing the resources you have...

 

[mjf]

There are a whole bunch of things you can do short of spending 5k on a gennie which will just use more deisel... create fumes... make noise... cost more in maintanence...

It never ceases to amaze me that with the Mobo brigade the first answer to any power problems seems to be to generate more by burning more fuel!

You need to think about how you use the power.. how you store the power... and then finally how you create it....

Here are some suggestions;

1) Reduce consumption; Replace all the interior lighting with LEDS... Ensure the fridge is properly insulated... Dont put warm things in it.... add a block of ice before you get going.
2) Batteries; is using a whole bunch of small batteries the best answer?? Someone can tell us I am sure the definitive answer but I would have though maybe 2 or 3 large 140-200 amp batteries might be better... Are they properly maintaned and charged when you are on shore power.... are they in good shape full stop??
3) Charging; are you getting all the power into the batteries that you can when you are charging them?? We had major issues last season... and I discovered that the plug in on my shore power was crapped out.... Do you have a good multi-stage charger for the batteries when they are on shore power charge?? Do you monitor the batts properly or wait until they are crapped out and then try to charge off the engine?? How big is your alternator on the engine that you are charging with... A better quality alternator from Balmar will work wonders with getting power into your batteries.... AT a cost far below a generator.

4) and finally... alternate charging methods.... for £1000 you could get a couple of decent roll up solar panels.. and these might just do the trick to keep you going for longer.... Certainly in the right conditions they should be able to keep the fridge ticking over.


Before dropping a load of dosh on a gennny..I would suggest you look at better managing the resources you have...

Fine

What about HW, aircon and oven then? its not all about fridges and charging the 12/24v you know...

 

[Garold]

Mjf does have a point.

Because I would only want to do the job once, the generator size needs to be large enough to future proof oneself. So, even if you don't have aircon now, will you maybe want it at a later date. Or coffee machines, microwaves, etc.

And another issue which is probably only pertinent to me, I was aware of the noise that the generator makes and the possible disturbance that it causes to us and neighbours when running. So I decided to go for a larger genny to get a two cylinder engine because it changes the nature of the noise that comes from the generator.

Funnily enough, I have a friend that told me that when he used to run his portable genny, he used to leave the boat, and take the tender to the beach at East Head to get away from the noise. He got rid of it after a couple of months and installed a permanent genny!

Cheers

 

[mjf]

Please please think twice before investing in these little toy generators, they are trouble with a capital T.

I know they are inexpensive and compact when compared with units from mainstream US manufacturers for example Kohler, Northern Lights, Onan etc, but you only get what you pay for.

Farymann and Lombardini engines used by the above bear no comparison with small Japanese engines used by U.S generator builders. and the generator ends are pure throw away once they fail, which they will.

Just search on 'Farymann' on this site alone to get a taste of what I am saying.

Can you please expand, I did a search as suggested and all I could find was PBO peeps having trouble locating spares.

I do not expect similar with Rod and Co at Advanced Yacht. I also had experience with the engine in a sailboat years ago. It was fine - always started and performed well.

What in particular do I need to do to avoid the Trouble you indicate please?

 

[photodog]

Fine

What about HW, aircon and oven then? its not all about fridges and charging the 12/24v you know...

Fair Comment. We dont have those luxuries!

I wish I had aircon.