generator

Thread is http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236791&highlight=farymann

However good the distributor he cannot beat the ##'s

#1 Just ask yourself why in the largest RV and marine genset market where people actually use this stuff, FP and Paguro have a poor reputation.

#2 Low end of market and ready to cut deals and should possess some large advantages, however very few big OEM builders in Europe have them on the spec sheet. Why informed people in marine industry KNOW this stuff is trouble.
 
As I understand it, the gen is for a P35 in the UK, problem envisaged is that the fridge will flatten batteries in no time. Answer, no it wont. OR shall I say it should not.

I had a truck in the 70's with a little fridge on 12 V and gas. That would flatten the big truck battery in no time. I think the OP still remembers this. A slightly more modern late 80's fridge, hardly uses much at all. As I said, we use the boat year round, use the little Honda maybe a couple of times in the winter. It's very quiet and hardly uses any juice. 800 Wats I think.

Cant think of any more power needed in the UK, except fridge, lights heating and TV. Even that lot only needs a bit of a top up now and again.
 
Well Latestarter, you clearly have had some terrible experience in your former life, or there's some commercial agenda that the rest of us are not aware of.

Personally, after experiencing frequent problems with an Onan generator, not being able to get parts, and then eventually giving up on it, I would say that my experience would lead me personally not to select this brand again. However, even this would not lead me to conclude that every Onan is rubbish. Some customers are convinced enough by their own experience to repeat purchase this brand.

Which leads me to Paguro, which as you may or may not know, do use a variety of engine brands and types on their generators. The thread that you direct us to, seems to recount some problems that a small number of customers had with elderly Fischer Panda Faryman powered generators. Enough evidence for you to slam all Paguros too? I think not.

In fact, before I purchased my last genny I spoke to several owners, who used their gensets as often as any of your RV mates, and they all seemed happy. I wouldn't have parted with my money otherwise. And after two years what did I do? I did what all satisfied customers do: I went back to the same supplier and spent more money on a new genset on my new boat.

If the distributor makes no odds to you, then I am surprised. All components have a chance of failure on any machine. To me, it's the quality of the warranty response and remediation of any problem that influences my future decision making. Hence, ordering my second Paguro. I felt confident that any problems in the future would be attended to. Comforts me you see.

So, not sure what's driving you, but please don't sound like you are speaking for all of us. Those of us who are genuine customers who spent our own money and use the kit aren't quite as unhappy as you believe.

No offence intended, but I have to rely on my own research and experience.

Cheers

Garold
 
And as for OEM decsion making being to the best advantage of customers.......... you joking?

My last boat had OEM specced and supplied Raymarine kit. Never worked properly for me. So, I have chosen to fit this boat out with Garmin.

Again, just a small guy reflecting on his own experience and acting reasonably.

Not sure that the quality of kit is the significant decision maker for boat spec........ don't you think that maybe the margin available for the manufacturer counts for something?

Just a thought.

Or am I naive? Should I always order what the manufacturer recommends because it's best? I think not. But you may choose to do differently of course.

Cheers

Garold
 
Garold said:
Well Latestarter, you clearly have had some terrible experience in your former life, or there's some commercial agenda that the rest of us are not aware of.

Personally, after experiencing frequent problems with an Onan generator, not being able to get parts, and then eventually giving up on it, I would say that my experience would lead me personally not to select this brand again. However, even this would not lead me to conclude that every Onan is rubbish. Some customers are convinced enough by their own experience to repeat purchase this brand.

Which leads me to Paguro, which as you may or may not know, do use a variety of engine brands and types on their generators. The thread that you direct us to, seems to recount some problems that a small number of customers had with elderly Fischer Panda Faryman powered generators. Enough evidence for you to slam all Paguros too? I think not.

In fact, before I purchased my last genny I spoke to several owners, who used their gensets as often as any of your RV mates, and they all seemed happy. I wouldn't have parted with my money otherwise. And after two years what did I do? I did what all satisfied customers do: I went back to the same supplier and spent more money on a new genset on my new boat.

If the distributor makes no odds to you, then I am surprised. All components have a chance of failure on any machine. To me, it's the quality of the warranty response and remediation of any problem that influences my future decision making. Hence, ordering my second Paguro. I felt confident that any problems in the future would be attended to. Comforts me you see.

So, not sure what's driving you, but please don't sound like you are speaking for all of us. Those of us who are genuine customers who spent our own money and use the kit aren't quite as unhappy as you believe.

No offence intended, but I have to rely on my own research and experience.

Cheers

Garold
Click to expand...

No offence taken, I obiously touched on a raw nerve. No commenrcial agenda when you are retired.

My opinion, which I chose to share with others is based on experience, yes some of it bitter. Many friends who are still marine distrubutors in US

I will continue to go my way and rely on premium Kohler or Onan equipment as my first choice.

Anything powered certainly by Farymann or Lombadini and with throw away alternator ends does not come up on my radar I am afraid.

Very surprised to hear of your poor experience with Onan, did you discuss with Neil Phelps?

Kohler & Onan tend to swap #1 place in the huge US Marine/RV market, not by being cheap but by offering lowest cost of ownership.

From posts I have seen it appears I am not alone in my views.
 
photodog said:
There are a whole bunch of things you can do short of spending 5k on a gennie which will just use more deisel... create fumes... make noise... cost more in maintanence...

It never ceases to amaze me that with the Mobo brigade the first answer to any power problems seems to be to generate more by burning more fuel!

You need to think about how you use the power.. how you store the power... and then finally how you create it....

Here are some suggestions;

1) Reduce consumption; Replace all the interior lighting with LEDS... Ensure the fridge is properly insulated... Dont put warm things in it.... add a block of ice before you get going.
2) Batteries; is using a whole bunch of small batteries the best answer?? Someone can tell us I am sure the definitive answer but I would have though maybe 2 or 3 large 140-200 amp batteries might be better... Are they properly maintaned and charged when you are on shore power.... are they in good shape full stop??
3) Charging; are you getting all the power into the batteries that you can when you are charging them?? We had major issues last season... and I discovered that the plug in on my shore power was crapped out.... Do you have a good multi-stage charger for the batteries when they are on shore power charge?? Do you monitor the batts properly or wait until they are crapped out and then try to charge off the engine?? How big is your alternator on the engine that you are charging with... A better quality alternator from Balmar will work wonders with getting power into your batteries.... AT a cost far below a generator.

4) and finally... alternate charging methods.... for £1000 you could get a couple of decent roll up solar panels.. and these might just do the trick to keep you going for longer.... Certainly in the right conditions they should be able to keep the fridge ticking over.


Before dropping a load of dosh on a gennny..I would suggest you look at better managing the resources you have...
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I'm pleased to see someone else here thinks the same as me! Haydn too is absolutely right in what he says about electrical consumption and getting things in proportion.

I'm absolutely flabbergasted that people will think nothing of spending £4k-£8k on a noisy and antisocial generator, yet they baulk at the option of less than £1k on a fully sorted silent option, i.e. increased battery capacity with intelligent charging, with reduced consumption.

Unless you do all your cooking, for 6 people, in a microwave, forget the genny idea. There's really no need in the UK with no aircon or power hungry appliances to sap the power. A modern efficient fridge should use no more than around 2Ah or there's something wrong. Think again!:eek:
 
I'm not sure how i got into this bun fight with you Latestarter but since I still have some energy left............... I shall endeavour to respond without sounding too rude.

You mention your penchant for the 'premium Kohler equipment'.

You then mention how the 'Lombadini, with throw away alternator ends, does not come up on my radar'.

Well you may wish to know that they are both the SAME COMPANY. Kohler and Lombardini merged 3 years ago, and so how you arrive at your conclusions is beyond me.

And as for your faith in the discerning US RV market ............. I'd try a German RV if you want real quality. Looked closely at Hymers etc?

So anyway, I shall honestly report back any problems that I have with my new Paguro. But so far, in case you are worried about my welfare or the VFM that I am getting, I'm just fine.

And that's from a real user, a current owner, who has current experience, and has spent his own money on the kit, and uses his boat for maybe 90 days per year.

Raw nerve? Well........ maybe a bit tetchy. But thanks for making me re-examine why I chose my current equipment. And I'm fine with my decisions.

As I said, my own experience with Onan was poor, but I am aware that I was unlucky with the kit and then failed to find competent after sales. With Advance Yacht Systems and the Paguro, I feel that I have addressed those concerns.

Cheers

Garold
 
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hlb said:
As I understand it, the gen is for a P35 in the UK, problem envisaged is that the fridge will flatten batteries in no time. Answer, no it wont. OR shall I say it should not.

I had a truck in the 70's with a little fridge on 12 V and gas. That would flatten the big truck battery in no time. I think the OP still remembers this. A slightly more modern late 80's fridge, hardly uses much at all. As I said, we use the boat year round, use the little Honda maybe a couple of times in the winter. It's very quiet and hardly uses any juice. 800 Wats I think.

Cant think of any more power needed in the UK, except fridge, lights heating and TV. Even that lot only needs a bit of a top up now and again.
Click to expand...

I agree with Haydn on this one. OK, our boat is much smaller at 27', but still has plenty of electrical kit onboard, probably as much consumption as a P35. Electric loo, windlass, water pumps, 12v fridge etc. Most of the time in the UK you have shore power available. We can comfortably spend 2 or 3 days and a couple of nights away from shore power, with the fridge on all the time, lights, loo, laptop and phones on charge etc and have never had a power problem and our domestics are all run from a single 110ah battery, the loo and windlass run from the 110ah engine battery.

Previous boat was a P32, with all the usual kit, single 110ah battery for the engines, banks of two for the domestics. She spent 3 or 4 months on a swinging mooring one Summer with no shore power and no problems. I had fitted a couple of small solar panels to keep the batteries topped up while we were away from the boat.

6-8 kva would nearly run a house lol I also think the sensible use of power, adequate batteries and charging systems is the way to go. As a final resort, i'd carry a small suitcase genny. I've thought about one a time or two, but never bothered to spend the cash and so far, never needed one.
 
Interesting, we switch the fridge off if away from shorepower and not running the engine as I've been led to believe it'll drain the batteries in no time. Looks like it may be okay to leave it on after all.
Can I have a volunteer to tell SWMBO the chicken she had to throw away last weekend could have been kept refridgerated.
 
PaulGooch said:
the loo and windlass run from the 110ah engine battery.
Click to expand...

That on the face of it that would concern me a little. The windlass running off the engine battery is fine as you would normally have the engine running when using it, but the loo? Personally I would be concerned that having been at anchor and the loo being used then the engine battery maybe depleted.

Normally the idea of a seperate domestic bank is so that the engine bank is protected from being run flat and thus the engine can be started regardless.

I apreciate that a few flushes of the loo shouldnt take to much out of a decent sized good condition engine battery, but then why not just have it off the domestic bank to be sure?

Ants
 
Anthony said:
That on the face of it that would concern me a little. The windlass running off the engine battery is fine as you would normally have the engine running when using it, but the loo? Personally I would be concerned that having been at anchor and the loo being used then the engine battery maybe depleted.

Normally the idea of a seperate domestic bank is so that the engine bank is protected from being run flat and thus the engine can be started regardless.

I apreciate that a few flushes of the loo shouldnt take to much out of a decent sized good condition engine battery, but then why not just have it off the domestic bank to be sure?

Ants
Click to expand...

All good points Ants. When i fitted the electric loo conversion i wired it into a small junction box that had been fitted when the boat was built, to power the holding tank discharge pump. I'd assumed they would have wired this to the domestic circuits, but later found out this was not the case. By this time, a few months had passed and we'd not had any problems, so i never bothered changing it over. I fitted an isolator switch that allows both circuits to be "combined", so if it did run the battery flat i could start it off of the domestic battery. I'll maybe look into changing it over at some point.
 
Philiz said:
Interesting, we switch the fridge off if away from shorepower and not running the engine as I've been led to believe it'll drain the batteries in no time. Looks like it may be okay to leave it on after all.
Can I have a volunteer to tell SWMBO the chicken she had to throw away last weekend could have been kept refridgerated.
Click to expand...

I take it you have a separate battery for the engine Phil ? Yeah, course you will. Normally if we are away from shore power, we're either away for day, or we'd be moving around, running the engine each day for a while. I wanted to discharge the batteries a bit a couple of weeks ago, to check the alternator/diodes were all working as they should be. We arrived at about 17:00 and spent the night onboard, fridge running, lights on, laptop running from 12v, no shore power connected. Left in the morning and motored for about 40 minutes, dropped the hook and spent the day fishing, everything still switched on. 40 minute run back to the marina and checked the charging with an ammeter, engine battery full, domestic battery down a little, but quickly charged up. Longest we've had away from shore power is three days and two nights, fridge and everything else running, but we did take a short run out each day.

I suspect most of the tales of fridges running batteries flat "in no time at all" date back to the old fridges with heaters. They would really give the battery some stick. The newer, 12v compressor fridges use much less power. You're probably only using 30ah with your fridge, check the figures though. Unless you're caning the battery with other stuff, i'd have thought a good 110ah battery ought to last a couple of days, at least, with no charging at all.

If that's not quite enough, fit more batteries. If the alternators won't replace consumption quick enough, look at solar panels, advanced alternator regulators, wind generators etc. A small suitcase genny makes a handy backup. We don't have a huge cruising range and have so far found one domestic battery lasts long enough.
 
mad_boater said:
Any one know what it would cost to have a generator 6/8 kva installed in a princess 35.The boat I am looking to buy has the usual calorifier and 12 /240v fridge which from past exprience soon runs the batteries flat for more than 1 night out.
Click to expand...

Quite a simple question to ask the forum but only a few relevent answers!

Chill
 
Yes guys, you're right. Drifting and then drifting even further. Some of us just have no focus!

So, to make up........

Price of a new 6kw genny approx £7k (+/- 10%) but it does go up and down with the currency because most of them are imported.

Fitting is about £2k but is dependent upon the spec. We installed extra insulation, extra silencers, gas/water separator, and a few other bits so this would have added a bit.

If you go for 4kw probably save about £2k (mostly on the genny price).

The others are right. In reality, unless you have aircon etc you don't need 6Kw and even then, a good 4kw genny with a tidy charger/invertor instal will probably still be fine.

As for the noise, in a quiet anchorage, generators are generally a bit antisocial. So even with a genny, adequate house batteries with a good invertor would be very useful.

Finally, since it can all cost significant amounts of money if you decide to get a genny, get some professional advice otherwise you will end up getting too much or too little for your needs. Getting the advice and using a decent installer can actually save you money in the end.

If you spend most nights in a marina, hooked up to shore power then a genny will not be useful. If you are at anchor regularly, or like to use out of the way buoys or pontoons for days on end, then the independence from shorebased services is a pleasure.

Cheers

Garold
 
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