Gauging the second-hand Yacht market (At the lower end).

One insight I picked up on here which applies to older boats: eliminate the value of the hull, no matter what the history of the class, world girdling, race winning etc. The true value rests in engine, rigging sails etc. Altho my last boat went for £1500 when I'd spent over £5K on such like over the previous 5 years.
Also, I reckon at the moment, a bid of half the asking price could be an appropriate starting point. A Colvic motorsailor went for £4k the other week, up here on the Medway. Asking price was £8950 and quite well sorted as well.
There's lots of boats parked on marina hards which owners have emotionally abandoned - twas ever thus. But now the economic downturn means they're more likely to get shut. Certainly applies where berth fees form a higher proportion of boat value.
 
From my experience, the market for the <25 ft >25 yrs old boat is almost non-existent.

Unless it is absolutely immaculate, it doesn't really make any difference if you advertiser it at £500 or £5000- it won't sell.
 
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I think some owners are clinging to the idea from a while back that the older, smaller boats drop to a certain price and stay there - you reached a stage where they sold on for what they were bought for. It's no longer the case and people want more from a boat now - mains electric, fridge, shower etc. - they don't want to move up through sizes, sleeping in the saloon in a sleeping bag. There are much higher expectation in terms of facilities in entry level boats now and the value of what were the entry level boats has nose dived.
 
davidej said:
From my experience, the market for the <25 ft >25 yrs old boat is almost non-existent.

Unless it is absolutely immaculate, it doesn't really make any difference if you advertiser it at £500 or £5000- it won't sell.
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l'escargot said:
I think some owners are clinging to the idea from a while back that the older, smaller boats drop to a certain price and stay there - you reached a stage where they sold on for what they were bought for. It's no longer the case and people want more from a boat now - mains electric, fridge, shower etc. - they don't want to move up through sizes, sleeping in the saloon in a sleeping bag. There are much higher expectation in terms of facilities in entry level boats now and the value of what were the entry level boats has nose dived.
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Up to a point, Lords Copper. That may be true in parts of the south coast where mooring costs are now so high that the cheapskate end of the markets has been pushed out. Less affluent parts of the country still have significant numbers of recreational boaters who don't pass away in a dead faint at the idea of pumping water. Mains electric is of little relevance if you stay on a swinging mooring.
 
+1 for keeping the boat clean and fresh.

Once sold a boat to a couple who came to see it, on the basis that the purchasers wife said "I want it, it's the first boat that we have seen that doesn't smell of damp,mildew or diesel"
 
CoVianna said:
Is the lower end of the second-hand Yacht market over priced?

Now I know my requirements are broad (upto £10,000 cash or more with a loan) I would like to spend as little as possibly, I am a Yorkshireman after all! I would prefer smaller, below 25 feet although one or two at 29 feet have caught my eye. Bilge or lift keel preferred although a shallow or a wing keel is not out of the question.

So far I have missed out on a Hanse 291 at £18,000. Was tempted by a Duette in average condition at £3,000 with good road trailer. Also an ETAP 23 at £5,950 in good order with good trailer. Red Fox in good order with good trailer at less than £10,000. All sold.

But it does seem that the same boats are advertised time and again, some I have seen for over a year. The vast majority at the same price. So this begs the question; do the sellers truly wish to sell? Have they misread or received poor advice with regard to the market and pricing? It does appear that well-found smaller yachts are selling at the right price.

PS This is not a whinge. I am just trying to understand and gauge the market.

PPS I look frequently on Apollo Duck, Boat & Outboards and various "Corporate" sites, i.e. BoatShed. Can anyone recommend anywhere else?
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Lots of sellers are unrealistic. A decade ago I wanted to buy a Prout Snowgoose and I couldnt work out what was happening with the prices. So I made myself a list of all the boats advertised in the previous 5 or so years ( that stash of old YM had a use after all!) and rang every one of them asking if the boat had sold and if so at what price. Done nicely , no one told me to sodd off. In the end less than half the boats had sold, and the only ones that had with the odd exception were those at the lower prices. One guy has a boat on a drying mooring down cornwall way and hahd had it for sale for 5 years doing no more than raising the price a bit every year. I went to look at it - damp everywhere inside the boat, headlinings hanging down, green mold on the halyards, damp on the woodwork. He thought his boat, at the tope end of the pricce range, was a bargain and he wasnt going to budge on price

You can hit lucky selling a boat if you have precisely what someone else wants. But someone who is just shopping around for any boat that catches his eye will buy on price.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Up to a point, Lords Copper. That may be true in parts of the south coast where mooring costs are now so high that the cheapskate end of the markets has been pushed out. Less affluent parts of the country still have significant numbers of recreational boaters who don't pass away in a dead faint at the idea of pumping water. Mains electric is of little relevance if you stay on a swinging mooring.
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What percentage of all boats are based on the South Coast? There used to be a figure bandied about quite often.
 
l'escargot said:
What percentage of all boats are based on the South Coast? There used to be a figure bandied about quite often.
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I've seen a claim that there are more yachts based on the Hamble than in Scotland, which I can believe. However, I think the long tail effect matters ... all those little harbours with a dozen boats, and creaks with two or three, add up.
 
There seem to be more boats on the Hamble than the rest of the world let alone Scotland, fortunately a relatively small percentage seem to move or the Solent really would be as crowded as some from other areas like to make out - not you Jumbleduck.

As for secondhand prices, recently I have seen two Anderson 22's change hands which possibly make good examples.

A very smart, little used boat with a recent keel but not much equipment went for over £5,000 - the going guestimate for an OK operational but not lavish A22 is £4,000.

A decent slightly earlier example but with heaps of very good equipment went for £3,300; the very experienced retired owner was giving up sailing and more concerned with the boat going to a good home.

I suspect these sorts of factors will apply to any class one looks at, pot luck what comes along.

The ability to go happily on a less expensive drying mooring is absolutely vital though, one could not give away a small fin keeler anywhere around Southern England and I'd be dubious at most other places in the UK unless buying without a thought of selling on later.
 
Seajet said:
The ability to go happily on a less expensive drying mooring is absolutely vital though, one could not give away a small fin keeler anywhere around Southern England and I'd be dubious at most other places in the UK unless buying without a thought of selling on later.
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What are these "drying moorings" of which you speak?

Love, Scotland (not counting the Solway)
 
Spuddy said:
One insight I picked up on here which applies to older boats: eliminate the value of the hull, no matter what the history of the class, world girdling, race winning etc. The true value rests in engine, rigging sails etc. Altho my last boat went for £1500 when I'd spent over £5K on such like over the previous 5 years.
Also, I reckon at the moment, a bid of half the asking price could be an appropriate starting point. A Colvic motorsailor went for £4k the other week, up here on the Medway. Asking price was £8950 and quite well sorted as well.
There's lots of boats parked on marina hards which owners have emotionally abandoned - twas ever thus. But now the economic downturn means they're more likely to get shut. Certainly applies where berth fees form a higher proportion of boat value.
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You're really suggesting a bid at half the price is reasonable at the moment? That's brilliant news. I have a budget of around £6k and all the boats of that value are around my age (35) and look fairly grotty on the inside. Boats at around. £12k seem in a lot better shape.

Good to know :-)
 
Seajet said:
Well, I crewed a chum's A22 from Dysart on the Forth to Port Edgar, Dysart seemed to suffer a distinct lack of water every 6 hours...:)
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Yes, he is obviously not where I am in Scotland! Bought a lift keeler specifically so that drying out is possible.
 
Seajet said:
The ability to go happily on a less expensive drying mooring is absolutely vital though, one could not give away a small fin keeler anywhere around Southern England and I'd be dubious at most other places in the UK unless buying without a thought of selling on later.
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W"hat is small in this context?
 
doug748 said:
To pick up a real bargain you have to move fairly quickly, be decisive, have the cash, know the market, and be willing to travel, often a good distance, at short notice.
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That's the crux. At your price point you need to know what a new motor or suit of sails will cost. These are the two deal breakers.You need to be able to assess what costs bringing it up to scratch will be and be able to assess the structural condition.
Find the boat in fine fettle and buy it there and then.
 
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