Gauging the second-hand Yacht market (At the lower end).

[CoVianna]

Is the lower end of the second-hand Yacht market over priced?

Now I know my requirements are broad (upto £10,000 cash or more with a loan) I would like to spend as little as possibly, I am a Yorkshireman after all! I would prefer smaller, below 25 feet although one or two at 29 feet have caught my eye. Bilge or lift keel preferred although a shallow or a wing keel is not out of the question.

So far I have missed out on a Hanse 291 at £18,000. Was tempted by a Duette in average condition at £3,000 with good road trailer. Also an ETAP 23 at £5,950 in good order with good trailer. Red Fox in good order with good trailer at less than £10,000. All sold.

But it does seem that the same boats are advertised time and again, some I have seen for over a year. The vast majority at the same price. So this begs the question; do the sellers truly wish to sell? Have they misread or received poor advice with regard to the market and pricing? It does appear that well-found smaller yachts are selling at the right price.

PS This is not a whinge. I am just trying to understand and gauge the market.

PPS I look frequently on Apollo Duck, Boat & Outboards and various "Corporate" sites, i.e. BoatShed. Can anyone recommend anywhere else?

 

[l'escargot]

Many owners of lower price boats are in denial and don't see the real value of their boats. The ones that have sold were the realistically priced ones.

 

[jordanbasset]

When people put them on e-bay I think they are a little more realistic - some here
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Boats-Wat...=R40&_nkw=yacht&_dcat=1297&Type=Cruiser&rt=nc

 

[doug748]

To pick up a real bargain you have to move fairly quickly, be decisive, have the cash, know the market, and be willing to travel, often a good distance, at short notice.
I think this explains why a lot of people prefer to shop with brokers and pay a bit more.
There is also a huge variation in condition. As we saw when Dylan Winter was looking for his Centaur, one boat can be good value at 12k another poor value at 2.
I guess if any of us were selling a boat we had spent a mountain of cash on, we would not be the least impressed by the argument that a buyer could have got a cheaper one, if only.

The market regulates itself. If a seller put too high a value on his pride and joy it stays on the shelf, as you say. I think some folk do this trying to claw back unwise past spending, some are not bothered about a sale, some are trapped. Whatever, it is a buyers market and you are in a prime position; the right one will come along and when you see it, you will know.

Bit like girls really.

 

[dylanwinter]

your search criteria do seem a tad unfocussed at the moment

a yacht between £3,000 and £18,000

my centaur is on for 10K

I have had one bloke who says he is going up there to have a look - not sure if he has yet

and a blind offer of 6K

In my experience boats do not start moving until the new year

as from january 1st I will start dropping the price on the Centaur by £100 a week until it sells

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/sailing-around-britain/harmony-for-sale-10000/

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/S2290009-300x200.jpg

she is ready to roll - all it requires is a stop at tescos on the way to the boat for food and crockery and away you go

D

 

[CoVianna]

If I'm "focussed" I want to pay under £10,000 and be under 25 feet, probably around 23 feet. Bilge of lift keel.

I have always liked the look of the Hanse 291/292/301 but thought they were outside my desired spend. Then I saw one in North Wales at below £20k. Emailed the Broker to enquire and arrange viewing. Broker replied promptly but then emailed next day to say a deal had been done. Not surprised really.

I think you should keep the Centaur and sell Katie L. I know someone who would be more than a little interested!

 

[NPMR]

My nice condition Sabre 27 is for sale. Fin keel (4'8"). Good or very good condition, with lots of modern electronics, sound engine and sails and if the broker is to be believed, she is amongst the best value boats that have been in his yard.

We started at £10500 and had an offer, later withdrawn even before survey, as the boat was decreed as being "too far" from his home and since then there has been very little interest/viewings. Where we have had viewings we persistently come second to a bigger boat at a little more money. We too had a blind offer, for £4000 early on and it just seemed to be too little, at that time.

So we have been steadily reducing the price and are now down to £7495. Still willing to negotiate.

As we have the bigger boat, it is becoming a pain maintaining and paying for both! So my opinion is that the market is flat as heck and that there are just too many boats for sale and the good ones, like our boat, are buried under the mass of dross.

 

[lw395]

Time of year matters.
Anyone with any sense needs to have made their offer by now if they want to get a full season out of 2015.
Few people seem to work like that though.

I think a lot of people are waiting to see what happens in the wider economy.
There comes a point where the capital cost of the boat is not the main thing, running costs and commitment over-rule it.

 

[TSB240]

If I'm "focussed" I want to pay under £10,000 and be under 25 feet, probably around 23 feet. Bilge of lift keel.

I have always liked the look of the Hanse 291/292/301 but thought they were outside my desired spend. Then I saw one in North Wales at below £20k. Emailed the Broker to enquire and arrange viewing. Broker replied promptly but then emailed next day to say a deal had been done. Not surprised really.

I think you should keep the Centaur and sell Katie L. I know someone who would be more than a little interested!

Cant go wrong with one of these if you want a proper lifter! This is a quick boat!

http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/advert.phtml?id=387240


I had one and sometimes regret trading up to a Hanse 301..... In North Wales as it happens. Did you speak to Doug Edwards by any chance?

 

[Searush]

There's a 31' Pentland ketch in Caernarfon for around 10k I believe. Needs a bit of a clean up as it hasn't had much use recently. In mast furling on main & mizzen too. Good solid boat.

 

[rwoofer]

There comes a point where the capital cost of the boat is not the main thing, running costs and commitment over-rule it.

A huge consideration in my book and one of the main reasons I went for a Jeanneau Sun 2000, which was expensive in comparision to many other boats on account of it's relative newness. When marina costs in Portsmouth harbour are around £3k per annum for a 21 footer it does not take long for the running costs to add up to more than the capital costs. With a 1 foot draft I get reasonable sailing access at less than £400 a year mooring costs.

 

[Yngmar]

But it does seem that the same boats are advertised time and again, some I have seen for over a year. The vast majority at the same price. So this begs the question; do the sellers truly wish to sell? Have they misread or received poor advice with regard to the market and pricing? It does appear that well-found smaller yachts are selling at the right price.

I've seen the same pattern in the >30-40ft sector. Some boats here in Brighton have been sitting in sales berths for at least 2 years now and are a familiar sight, only the broker seems to have changed occasionally. The problem is, once they do sit for a few months, they tend to get manky which makes them even harder to sell, but the price is often not adjusted to reflect this. Not to mention the equipment ages, the hull gets crusty, the electronics get even more outdated, the dinghy hangs like a flaccid sack providing an inviting puddle of freshwater for the seagulls to bathe in (and thereby shit all over the boat) and the sprayhood slowly starts turning green from one end.

All this time, someone must've been paying a fantastic amount of mooring fees instead of accepting a lower offer that would've saved them a few grand of those.

I look frequently on Apollo Duck, Boat & Outboards and various "Corporate" sites, i.e. BoatShed. Can anyone recommend anywhere else?

Find out which marinas are near you and Google for their brokers. Makes for easier viewing of "meh, probably not, but maybe" candidates that could yield a lucky find. For <30ft boats there's also Ebay and (very occasionally and do watch out for scams) Gumtree. Also, magazines.

 

[xyachtdave]

Cant go wrong with one of these if you want a proper lifter! This is a quick boat!

http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/advert.phtml?id=387240

All that teak to maintain.....harrumph!

 

[Yngmar]

All that teak to maintain.....harrumph!

That's no teak. It's that awful pretend-teak. Easier to maintain, but before I do that I'd rather glop a bucket of non-skid paint over the thing.

 

[xyachtdave]

That's no teak. It's that awful pretend-teak. Easier to maintain, but before I do that I'd rather glop a bucket of non-skid paint over the thing.

I thought it looked quite nice!

 

[dylanwinter]

I love my plastic teak

warm to the touch, shrugs off all known sains, forgiving to sit on

looks great

D

 

[dylanwinter]

I love my plastic teak

warm to the touch, shrugs off all known stains, forgiving to sit on

looks great

D

 

[JumbleDuck]

she is ready to roll - all it requires is a stop at tescos on the way to the boat for food and cockery ...

Even if that's legal, wouldn't you be too tired to sail?

 

[jerrytug]

I've seen the same pattern in the >30-40ft sector. Some boats here in Brighton have been sitting in sales berths for at least 2 years now and are a familiar sight, only the broker seems to have changed occasionally. The problem is, once they do sit for a few months, they tend to get manky which makes them even harder to sell, but the price is often not adjusted to reflect this. Not to mention the equipment ages, the hull gets crusty, the electronics get even more outdated, the dinghy hangs like a flaccid sack providing an inviting puddle of freshwater for the seagulls to bathe in (and thereby shit all over the boat) and the sprayhood slowly starts turning green from one end.

All this time, someone must've been paying a fantastic amount of mooring fees instead of accepting a lower offer that would've saved them a few grand of those.



Find out which marinas are near you and Google for their brokers. Makes for easier viewing of "meh, probably not, but maybe" candidates that could yield a lucky find. For <30ft boats there's also Ebay and (very occasionally and do watch out for scams) Gumtree. Also, magazines.

All painfully true! Often made worse by the emotional investement of the seller, eg, " we spent weeks beating through the edge of Hurricane Henrietta, I was never concerned for a moment, that 1x19 is as good as new after 22 yrs of ocean thrashing. How dare you insult and belittle my trip of a lifetime with your silly wide-boy offer you vile chav, never darken my doors..etc etc"
Been on the market for 15 yrs, probly got another 15 coming..

Saltram Saga 36 in Birdham Pool, would take you round the world with one hand tied behind its back

(plus needing the cost of new rigging, boom, sails, engine and keelbolts of course, £20k)

people just won't let things go and these misguided idiots clog up the system.

When I sell my Hurley 24/70 in the spring, it will be half price because I want to move on.

Dreamers dream on

 

[prv]

The problem is, once they do sit for a few months, they tend to get manky which makes them even harder to sell, but the price is often not adjusted to reflect this. Not to mention the equipment ages, the hull gets crusty, the electronics get even more outdated, the dinghy hangs like a flaccid sack providing an inviting puddle of freshwater for the seagulls to bathe in (and thereby shit all over the boat) and the sprayhood slowly starts turning green from one end.

Very true - I spent three years parking underneath a small steel yacht that slowly became more and more scruffy while waiting for a buyer, sails still bent on, apparently no attention from anybody.

When we were selling Kindred Spirit I used to pop down most weeks to check on her, give something a quick wipe, air the cabin, etc. The rig had to be up for her to look right, but the sails and other canvaswork were dry and neatly folded in the forepeak. The first serious buyer to look at her made an immediate offer, even cancelling his appointment to look at another boat. Presentation matters!

Pete