Gas Locker ( I feel a survey coming on!!)

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pcatterall

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We have to have an insurance survey soon and I feel sure our gas set up will need attention.
Currently our cylinder is secured in a locker which has a door into the cockpit and the locker is far from gas tight.
We have rules about 'gas on- cook-gas off'! , there is a switchable sign on the locker and we test that it is off by observing the flame going out.
So we try to be safe but know we are none compliant.

The simplest solution in my mind would be to have a gas tight open top container ( steel or GRP) higher than the valve and a 19mm id flexible pipe at the lowest point going out through the hull side. It would be great if we could lift out the container through the locker door to change the cylinder so the flexible drain pipe would have to long enough to accommodate this.
Does this sound like it may be acceptable ?

Failing that we could use another locker which is less convenient ( further away and wastes valuable space) but is top opening, we could use the same open top container but the drain pipe in this case could be fixed.

Advice ( as always) much appreciated
 
pcatterall said:
We have to have an insurance survey soon and I feel sure our gas set up will need attention.
Currently our cylinder is secured in a locker which has a door into the cockpit and the locker is far from gas tight.
We have rules about 'gas on- cook-gas off'! , there is a switchable sign on the locker and we test that it is off by observing the flame going out.
So we try to be safe but know we are none compliant.

The simplest solution in my mind would be to have a gas tight open top container ( steel or GRP) higher than the valve and a 19mm id flexible pipe at the lowest point going out through the hull side. It would be great if we could lift out the container through the locker door to change the cylinder so the flexible drain pipe would have to long enough to accommodate this.
Does this sound like it may be acceptable ?

Failing that we could use another locker which is less convenient ( further away and wastes valuable space) but is top opening, we could use the same open top container but the drain pipe in this case could be fixed.

Advice ( as always) much appreciated
Click to expand...

My insurance and survey just specified that the drain holes are over the side and not into the cockpit, the Gas is heave and will always fall to the bottom of the boat and with any luck drain away over board for safety
The locker did not have to be air tight. (my surveyor may be wrong but it would seem logical)
 
My gas locker has a door that opens in the cockpit (and drain), the box itself is gas tight (so I believe). The gas could/would/should drain through the cockipit drains. I'm sure when I was reading about it when I bought the boat, it was acceptable due to the other openings to the hull being higher than the valve.
 
I faced the same situation a couple of years back and contemplated something very similar. Ultimately I modified the cockpit coaming locker per this blog: https://fjordms33.wordpress.com/2016/08/08/sohvi-keeping-the-surveyor-happy/. Insurers are currently happy with it, but we'll see what regs have changed by the time the next survey is due!

I'm guessing from your post that you've probably already read this helpful summary of the Boat Safety Scheme Essential Guide: http://www.marinesurveys.net/BoatSafety/Guideline-chap7LPG.pdf
 
Thanks guys. Useful info although I can't utilize the coaming area. I cant allow gas into my cockpit as the engine cover is there and gas could find its way down there. Nor can I use or tap into the cockpit drain as they exit under water.
 
Ours is a top opening container for two cylinders in a top opening cockpit locker. It drains via a short pipe to the stern and occasionally a wave slapping the stern pushes a little water into the bottom of the container. There is a hinged lid and a clamp buckle (or whatever it's called).

We don't follow cooker off / gas off discipline except when leaving the boat at the end of the holiday as that would feel very inconvenient versus the actual likelihoood of a problem but that is a decision I do think about.
 
What kind of boat is it?

On my old boat the gas was in the cockpit locker with no venting at all. I moved it to the back of the cockpit and had a bottle secured either side of the tiller. A wooden cover hid everything from view. The bottles were directly above the cockpit water drain, and I also installed a bubble tester too.
 
Iain C said:
What kind of boat is it?

On my old boat the gas was in the cockpit locker with no venting at all. I moved it to the back of the cockpit and had a bottle secured either side of the tiller. A wooden cover hid everything from view. The bottles were directly above the cockpit water drain, and I also installed a bubble tester too.
Click to expand...

Neptunian 33 ( with a small deep centre cockpit)
The current situation will probably not pass any inspection but if the boat rules are followed it is safe. Some solutions may make it more difficult to isolate the cylinders at the main valve so crew may become lazy and not do it. I'm trying to find the balance between satisfying the insurers and simplicity with safety.

Thanks all
 
pcatterall said:
Neptunian 33 ( with a small deep centre cockpit)
The current situation will probably not pass any inspection but if the boat rules are followed it is safe. Some solutions may make it more difficult to isolate the cylinders at the main valve so crew may become lazy and not do it. I'm trying to find the balance between satisfying the insurers and simplicity with safety.

Thanks all
Click to expand...

I sometimes think that marine surveyors and gas installation surveyors are forever trying to upsell the latest gadgets in the name of safety.

After having a supposedly respected surveyor recommend 'current practice' of drilling a hole in a propshaft and positively connecting it to the flange clamp (on a brand new and professionally fitted engine, gearbox, shaft, bearing & propeller) and also specifying that a gas installation should be certified by a Gas Safe professional and have a bubble test thingy (actually, they aren't required for a seagoing yacht), I'm sure that, mostly, it is our wallets being certified as insane to the point of retail therapy.

Ultimately, our gas installations need to be gas tight, maintained and safe. Surely this is the way to go on board?
 
Someone suggested gas will escape down the cockpit drains .

If the outlets of the cockpit drain is below the waterline the gas being less dense won't push through the water which will be effectively sealing the drain.
 
Our boat started life out as all electric. No gas onboard. We installed a gas cooker but with no dedicated gas locker we decided to mounted the gas bottle on the guardrail. We had a s/s basket/cage made that hung on the pushpit. The cage has a sunbrella cover made to match the boat spray hood. No gas bottle in the boat. Works well with a continues copper pipe through the boat bilges
 
I think most Neptunians now have their gas moved from the original cockpit gas lockers. There's certainly no escape for gas down the cockpit drains as they drain under water and as the lip of the companionway is very low, there is little margin before any leak would find its way below.

Two solutions I have seen is to form a deck opening locker in half of the rear cabin locker that is over the steering mechanism. The problem is getting a deck hatch big enough to fit the 'cheaper' size gas cylinders, rather than the blue camping gaz. The other one I've sen is to build a 'deck box' (or two) on the rear deck against the pushpit rails. This stores your gas, increases storage for other bits and provides some much needed deck lounging seating.
 
On a previous boat, a badly-designed and badly-installed gas locker nearly sank her! Check that any proposed solution makes logical sense to you, don't just accept that the installer knows what they're doing.

My current boat had the gas bottles in the anchor locker, with pipework running the length of the boat behind lots of panelling. The pre-purchase survey insisted this be replaced - so I got rid of all the gas and installed an Origo instead.
 
graham said:
Someone suggested gas will escape down the cockpit drains .

If the outlets of the cockpit drain is below the waterline the gas being less dense won't push through the water which will be effectively sealing the drain.
Click to expand...

That was me. On the S27 the exit is above the rudder, above the waterline, so it's no issue.
 
Motor sailor. As you 'know the Neptunian' you will understand the two options I am looking at.
I can GRP the entire original locker, provide a drain and a sealed door.
Or use a gas tight container in there with a drain ( but how to change cylinders.
Or use the top loading locker and put a gas tight container with drain in there.
We don't really like the idea of deck hatches especially if there is a long run from the stern area.
More head scratching needed!
 
pcatterall said:
Motor sailor. As you 'know the Neptunian' you will understand the two options I am looking at.
I can GRP the entire original locker, provide a drain and a sealed door.
Or use a gas tight container in there with a drain ( but how to change cylinders.
Or use the top loading locker and put a gas tight container with drain in there.
We don't really like the idea of deck hatches especially if there is a long run from the stern area.
More head scratching needed!
Click to expand...

We like the top opening gas locker in a top opening cockpit locker - and it's big enough for the second gas bottle too so we can swap the pipe over without moving either cylinder - and of course if there is a leak in the second gas bottle it will also drain out to an above waterline exit in the stern.
 
pcatterall said:
Motor sailor. As you 'know the Neptunian' you will understand the two options I am looking at.
I can GRP the entire original locker, provide a drain and a sealed door.
Or use a gas tight container in there with a drain ( but how to change cylinders.
Or use the top loading locker and put a gas tight container with drain in there.
We don't really like the idea of deck hatches especially if there is a long run from the stern area.
More head scratching needed!
Click to expand...

I might be missing something Peter, but if you can provide a drain at the bottom of the locker, it does not have to be sealed.
 
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