Gas cookers and Gas storage

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jpay

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I'm thinking of purchasing a gas cooker, looking on the web there doesnt seem to be much difference between the 2 ring and toast camping cooker by campingaz and the more expensive marine option.

Anyone have preferences? PRO's and CON's.
How easily is it to fit these onto Gimbles.

Where's the best place to store the gas bottle... in the rear cockpit locker in case of gas leaks and big bangs or is there no need.

Does it need ventilating the area it's stored.

Thanks
 
Not much to choose from if you want a marine one with fiddle rails and the option of gimballs Comes down to no more than the Plastimo one unless it's ovens you are after as well,

Faced with this problem last year Plastimo one too big (and too expensive). Likewise the Camping Gaz one too big (Actually have a Camping gaz one little used left from our camping days. Not quite the same as current models but unsuitable IMHO).

In the end I bought a two burner + grill from the local camping centre and set about modifying it to suit.


Old cooker (there was a marine version but this is just the camping version)




New cooker as supplied




New cooker minus lid and windshields




New cooker installed



and not a registered Unsafe Gas fitter in sight!


Your gas bottle should either be on deck where any gas leaking will go overboard or in a gas locker with an overboard drain See Chapter 7 of the Boat Safety scheme for all the details of what would be acceptable

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.com/downloads/BSS_Guide_chap7.pdf

.
 
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gas bottle should either be on deck where any gas leaking will go overboard or in a gas locker with an overboard drain See Chapter 7 of the Boat Safety scheme for all the details of what would be acceptable

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.com/down...uide_chap7.pdf
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Thanks Vic, this is a useful checklist.

Rather than start a fresh thread, as the experts seem to be following this one, hopefully the OP won't mind if I ask a question.

The gas installation on my boat seems to be fully compliant with the document Vic posted, however in the short section where it runs under the opening to the lazarette, and obviously exposed to salt water splashes, the copper pipe has a green surface corrosion. It is perfectly sound elsewhere in the installation being the usual "brown" of old copper. Is this something I should be worried about or is the copper oxide(?) now providing its own protection and therefore won't cause any more damage?

Cheers in advance.

Tim
 
Is this something I should be worried about
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it is something you should not be complacent about it. If it really is only a surface colouration maybe not get too worried but any more than that should cause you some concern.

It would be wise to run the pipe through a protective sleeve or conduit through that area. The down side then is that you cannot then inspect it. Alternatively re-route the pipe to avoid that area.
 
I was thinking I might clean it up and protect it with a couple of coats of epoxy. That way I can still visibly inspect it but it wouldn't be so exposed tp the elements. Any thoughts?

What would be the best substance to clean off/neutralise the "green" stuff?

Cheers.
 
new cooker / green pipe

Sorry to be a stick in the mud I would not fit a cooker without flame failure protection on all burners and the gas cylinder in a gas locker sealed and vented to overboard remembering that LPG is like water as in it is heavier than air.

Copper oxide on the outside of the pipe should be monitored but the hardest part to watch is any where it touch's anything else as this wears away the oxide and causes the pipe to wear away quicker. ( I have seen what happens when things go wrong to many times ).


If you want to put it inside another pipe to limit corrosion i would use clear pipe so you can keep an eye on it.
 
I would not fit a cooker without flame failure protection on all burners
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If only that had been possible.

LPG is like water as in it is heavier than air
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Heavier than air yes but hardly like water. Water is a liquid but propane and butane once released fro the bottle are gases. water will always run to the lost point and stay there if it cannot drain away. Butane and propane diffuse and mix with the air, that's why they are so much more difficult to contain.

I was thinking I might clean it up and protect it with a couple of coats of epoxy
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yes I did wonder about that too. you'd need to clean it thoroughly and use an appropriate primer I think.
 
Every "marine" stove has thermocouples on every burner and none have a pilot light. Most insurance companies insist on this, at least in North America. The bottle(s) must be in a locker sealed from the rest of the boat with an overboard drain. In North America connections are not allowed outside the locker except at the connection to the stove or other appliance. This means that if you have a stove and heater you have a T connection in the vented locker and 2 unbroken runs, one to each appliance. We use flex hose. The UK regs differ and prefer copper runs with flex to each appliance kept short. A propane sniffer alarm is also part of the system with a 12 volt solenoid at the tank inside the locker.
 
Flame failure device.

It is absolutely essential to have a flame failure device on every burner.

Nowadays cookers with these are readily available, and it would be stupid not to have this basic safety device.
 
It is absolutely essential to have a flame failure device on every burner.
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Very highly desirable . Essential ?? not so sure. My boat has survived for 30 years with a cooker without flame failure devices, as have many others, and I expect it to see me out!

Nowadays cookers with these are readily available, and it would be stupid not to have this basic safety device.
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If I could have found one to fit the space I would probably have bought it .... But I couldn't ... hence another camping stove.
 
VicS said:
Very highly desirable . Essential ?? not so sure. My boat has survived for 30 years with a cooker without flame failure devices, as have many others, and I expect it to see me out!

If I could have found one to fit the space I would probably have bought it .... But I couldn't ... hence another camping stove.
Click to expand...

On your own head be it. Just don't berth or anchor near me.
 
Again, I was looking at the camper range, and most do not have a FFD because they are certified for 'outdoor use only'.

I came across this nice little unit: http://www.kampa.co.uk/gas_appliances/roastmaster.html, costs around £175 made by Kampa. It has FFD on the oven but not the burners. I emailed them to confirm this (which they did) and told me that they are bringing out one with full FFD on all burners. They said it would be around April, but not heard anything yet.

Obviously not gimbled, but not hard to fabricate something.
 
The best safety device you can get is common sense when using the cooker and switch off the gas at the bottle at night or when not in use and someone is resting below.

I was talking to someone on a trade stand at one of the shows a few years ago, who said that pumping the bilge after a gas leak won't achieve much because bilge pumps are designed to pump water, not gas. Any thoughts?
 
seanfoster said:
Isn't FFD on gas appliances in a boat essential in they eyes of your insurer?
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Not sure about wording on policy, but did not come up on last insurance survey, so guess even the surveyor didn't have a problem with it. He did have a problem with the gas box though, so must view this as rather more important.
 
NormanS said:
On your own head be it. Just don't berth or anchor near me.
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You had better let me and all the others who no not have FFDs on all burners know how we will recognise you then. Remember the Vanessa cooker was the popular cooker until some time after 2000 and that did not have FFDs on the grill or hob burners. There will still be a lot of them about

You are not being very helpful. I need a cooker, two burners and grill, that will fit the available space, About 470mm wide and 270mm deep. Which one do I buy?

Since you say that FFDs are essential perhaps you can quantify the danger.
If the cooker is in use I am right next to it using it so the chances of a flame failure going unnoticed for long is almost non existent but even if it did how much gas would have to be released into the cabin to create a potentially dangerous situation. There will be a tendency for the released gas to fall to the floor , at least initially where there is no source of ignition but suppose it was all stirred up to reach the likely source of ignition... me relighting the burner probably, just how much gas would be required to make that an explosive mixture and how long would it take for that much gas to be released.

When the cooker is not in use I shut the local isolating valve so no problems then. I am also thinking of fitting an electrically operated valve local to the gas bottle.

I await your recommendation for a cooker that has the FFDs you consider essential and some arithmetic that supports your assertion.
 
Slow_boat said:
I was talking to someone on a trade stand at one of the shows a few years ago, who said that pumping the bilge after a gas leak won't achieve much because bilge pumps are designed to pump water, not gas. Any thoughts?
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Absolutely, not only unlikely to pump air and gas efficiently but to be effective you would have to pump several times the volume of the bilges (up to 10 times probably) Work out how long that will take.
The only effective method of ventilating the bilges would be with a fan.
 
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