gas again

[harvey38]

Just filled my completely empty 7kg Safefill cylinder for £12.30 at our local gas distributor, I use a 5kg Safefill cylinder on the boat to fuel the barbeque only.

The cylinders have an auto shutoff valve to prevent overfilling and non return valve so if a regulator is not fitted, even with the valve open, gas will not escape.

 

[Elessar]

Buy an empty larger cylinder on Facebook or ebay, and refill from that. It's the only reliable and cost effective way it seems.

This is incredibly dangerous.
Gas bottles if overfilled will fracture. If filling from another bottle you have no idea how full the smaller bottle is. You have to have enough gas above the liquid if you can be in trouble. . The pressure remains the same (saturated vapour pressure) so pressure does not tell you how full it is.

**edit though Harvey has a safe solution

 

[Elessar]

What law is being broken? Calor agreements are not laws

Sod the law It’s a real danger. The suggestion of weighing the bottle when filling is better than nothing but the cylinders don’t all weigh the same when empty.

Gas is bad enough when properly stored. With these bodges it’s a real risk.

Only one of the five boats I’ve had has had gas at all. And I hated it then as I boat in the winter and it’s just not reliable, and it was hard to get even ten years ago.

get rid of gas is the answer.

 

[KevinV]

This is incredibly dangerous.
Gas bottles if overfilled will fracture. If filling from another bottle you have no idea how full the smaller bottle is. You have to have enough gas above the liquid if you can be in trouble. . The pressure remains the same (saturated vapour pressure) so pressure does not tell you how full it is.

**edit though Harvey has a safe solution

I made no mention of the method - that's been discussed at great length elsewhere.

 

[Stemar]

If you went with 7kg presumably they didn't take the old cylinder, so what was the net cost of the new one?

Socal in Southampton were quite happy to take the 4.5kg tank in exchange. I understand that Force 4 & You Boat will do the same.

 

[penfold]

Most cylinders are owned by and remain the property of the gas supplier whose name is printed/marked on the cylinder. These cylinders are filled by weight and must ONLY be filled in a dedicated filling plant by the gas supplier or their authorised filling contractor. It is unlawful for anyone else (either a company or private persons) to fill these cylinders.

That's just fancy talk for breach of contract; Calor have already torn up the contract by not supplying the promised services so any civil suit would be interesting to watch.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

That's just fancy talk for breach of contract; Calor have already torn up the contract by not supplying the promised services so any civil suit would be interesting to watch.

It's nothing to do with contract law and everything to do with The Carriage of Dangerous Goods and Use of Transportable Pressure Equipment Regulations. This was implemented in UK law in 2004 to fulfil the EU Transportable Pressure Equipment Directive, Part III of Annex IV, which states...

To meet the requirements referred to in paragraph 1 the owner, or his authorised representative established in the Community, must take all measures necessary to ensure that the conditions of use and of maintenance ensure the continued conformity of the transportable pressure equipment to the relevant requirements of Part 4 of these Regulations, in particular so that:

• it is filled in appropriate filling centres

This was implemented in The Carriage of Dangerous Goods and Use of Transportable Pressure Equipment Regulations 2004. The relevant part of the law applies to companies and private individuals. This act has subsequently been revoked because of the B word but replaced by The Carriage of Dangerous Goods and Use of Transportable Pressure Equipment (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2021. This is essentially the same, just removing references to 'the Community'. If an accident were to happen because of breaching this law it would not be a civil suit brought against you by Calor, but a criminal prosecution instigated by the HSE via the CPS.

There are certain activities that the law considers dangerous and bans private individuals from doing, even on their private land. You cannot store large amounts of petrol, drive around with fluorine, keep a tiger in your shed, or refill a gas cylinder - without appropriate equipment and authorisation.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

The cylinders have an auto shutoff valve to prevent overfilling and non return valve* so if a regulator is not fitted, even with the valve open, gas will not escape.

* High flow shut off valve. If the flow goes above a set limit the valve closes completely. Some regulators have this feature.

 

[geem]

Someone who can't get Flogas.

That's the only reason I went with the bigger 7kg Calor bottle

By a Safefill bottle and fill it for 75p/litre. We did that 12 years ago. So much cheaper gas. The bottle is grp. It doesn't rust or stain the deck. It's lighter

 

[geem]

This is incredibly dangerous.
Gas bottles if overfilled will fracture. If filling from another bottle you have no idea how full the smaller bottle is. You have to have enough gas above the liquid if you can be in trouble. . The pressure remains the same (saturated vapour pressure) so pressure does not tell you how full it is.

**edit though Harvey has a safe solution

By a Safefill bottle.They can't be overfilled

 

[jdc]

The Carriage of Dangerous Goods and Use of Transportable Pressure Equipment Regulations 2004

Are you quite sure that these regulations apply to private individuals doing things without the intention to 'place on the GB market'?

The 2021 regulations seem only concerned with importing or selling and the 2004 and 2009 regulations likewise have loads of exceptions. Where for instance is the clause allowing Safefill if there is just a blanket ban?

 

[Moonbeam]

By a Safefill bottle and fill it for 75p/litre. We did that 12 years ago. So much cheaper gas. The bottle is grp. It doesn't rust or stain the deck. It's lighter

Is £200 the going rate for an empty bottle? Or is someone making hay while the sun shines (the Safefill website says they are out of stock of bottles)
Safefill Refillable Gas Cylinder Small 5kg / Motorhome Caravan Campervan Boat | eBay

 

[fredrussell]

Just fill yer own folks. I’ve been filling a 3.9 calor propane from 19kg bottles for years. The hose to do it costs a tenner on eBay and it’s about as dangerous as filling your car with petrol at a forecourt. If you can cross the street on your own, you have enough nous to fill a gas bottle safely.

 

[geem]

Is £200 the going rate for an empty bottle? Or is someone making hay while the sun shines (the Safefill website says they are out of stock of bottles)
Safefill Refillable Gas Cylinder Small 5kg / Motorhome Caravan Campervan Boat | eBay

Ten years ago the bottles were £100. Sounds like they have gone up some. Just checked latest costs of lpg, 85p/ litre. If you use a lot of gas then the cost of the bottle will pay back pretty quickly. I litre of Propane weighs 0.5kg. So £1.70p per kg. By comparison to Calor its almost for free

 

[fredrussell]

Just a word of caution: if you buy a refillable bottle like Safefill or Gasure for UK use, first make sure there is somewhere nearby you can fill it. Many (probably most) forecourts in UK don’t like them. My friend has a Safefill and he’s been turned away from most of the big players like Shell, BP and so on. Obviously not an issue if you’re cruising further afield, but in the UK it might not be as straightforward as one would assume to get a cylinder filled.

 

[geem]

Just a word of caution: if you buy a refillable bottle like Safefill or Gasure for UK use, first make sure there is somewhere nearby you can fill it. Many (probably most) forecourts in UK don’t like them. My friend has a Safefill and he’s been turned away from most of the big players like Shell, BP and so on. Obviously not an issue if you’re cruising further afield, but in the UK it might not be as straightforward as one would assume to get a cylinder filled.

Yep, local gas filler is handy. We have one 3 miles from our house.
You can't fill them on a forecourt.

 

[lustyd]

get rid of gas is the answer

Unfortunately there isn’t a practical alternative for average sized boats and frankly gas isn’t that dangerous when properly used.

 

[Aja]

By a Safefill bottle and fill it for 75p/litre. We did that 12 years ago. So much cheaper gas. The bottle is grp. It doesn't rust or stain the deck. It's lighter

Can you advise where you can fill these?

 

[PeterBoater]

Can you advise where you can fill these?

According to Safefill's website, at a lot of Morrison's forecourts.

 

[geem]

Can you advise where you can fill these?

Safefill do a list of companies that will fill them.
Here in the .Caribbean, it is routine to fill your own bottle. The camping gas bottles often can't be refilled as they have no safety valve.
No problem getting our Safefill bottles filled and no numpty can over fill it