gjgm
Well-Known Member
Why would you use this and not the NMEA 2000 - unless I suppose you already have some legacy Network equipment installed ?
garmin network
- Thread starter gjgm
- Start date
PaulGooch
Well-Known Member
It's used for networking multiple MFD's, connecting Radar and the black box fishfinder.
It's the only way to connect digital radar and the fishfinder. It's also the only way to get full networking with multiple MFD's, NMEA connectivity would only exchange minimal data.
It's basically an ethernet network, same as your PC and same as Raymarine's "Seatalk hs". A benefit with the system on a lot of the later Garmin plotters, is that they include 3 ports, so all you need for a small network is some 99p ethernet cables.
oceanfroggie
Well-Known Member
Spot on. To add N2k imho has been a very disapointing interface to the outside world with no clear standard in sentance protocols, every manufacturer seems to have their own variation and interoperation has proven limited. Many modern installs still use old but reliable 183 to bridge to other vendors data. N2k is not what we were promised it might be. GBN has some expert data on this.
PaulGooch
Well-Known Member
My plotter came with enough bits to build a basic N2K network and the GPS antenna is connected to it, nothing else. I see Garmin do some cables to allow a few analogue devices to be connected, such as my rudder indicator, but they seem a bit pricey.
On the other hand (as you suggest), my NMEA 0183 connections are to the fishfinder, AIS, VHF and digital compass, all chatting to each other very happily.
gjgm
Well-Known Member
Ah, yea .. seem now to remember some drawing in their brochures with the above mentioned.
ok, so whats the way to do this then !
Garmin 5012
Garmin GPS
Garmin/Airmar nmea 2000 tri-ducer
Garmin GMI 10
non Garmin AIS 0183
If the power goes into the plotter, will that also power the other units via NMEA 2k network?
Getting a bit lost in just many of these t connectors I need ! Is it 4, plus a male and female end.
Or is there some simple way to do this without all these expensive plugs !!
David2452
Well-Known Member
You can hook it all up with N2K apart from the AIS, but fortunately Garmin do provide a number of 0183 inputs and outputs instead of the usual couple. You will not get true fishfinder display this way (only depth, speed, temp)
You will need 4 off tees, 1 off power supply tee and 1 off each male and female end resistor. Then you need sufficient male / female ended backbone cables to bridge the Tees (end resistors normally on the final Tees) and a male / female ended drop cable for each device. The N2K will provide power where needed, where not a seperate power supply will be ncluded and specified with the device. A thin backbone will carry 3 amps wheras a thick backbone will carry 8 amps.
references NMEA 0400 8.3.1.1 and 8.3.2.3
Edit to add that you could string the Tees together and simply run long droppers to the devices as this may well be a cheaper option and simpler install as far as cables go.
You will need 4 off tees, 1 off power supply tee and 1 off each male and female end resistor. Then you need sufficient male / female ended backbone cables to bridge the Tees (end resistors normally on the final Tees) and a male / female ended drop cable for each device. The N2K will provide power where needed, where not a seperate power supply will be ncluded and specified with the device. A thin backbone will carry 3 amps wheras a thick backbone will carry 8 amps.
references NMEA 0400 8.3.1.1 and 8.3.2.3
Edit to add that you could string the Tees together and simply run long droppers to the devices as this may well be a cheaper option and simpler install as far as cables go.
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David2452
Well-Known Member
Sorry Paul but you can’t do that anymore than you can use solid core electrical cable anywhere else on a boat, the reason for that needs no explanation here. the cable should be multi stranded tinned cat 5e with the correct waterproof ends as standard patch cables are solid core and have a latch securing method whereas the Garmin and other marine networks have a waterproof securing collar.
PaulGooch
Well-Known Member
Buying new, today, the 5012 will come with an NMEA 2000 antenna/engine. It will have enough hardware to construct a basic NMEA 2000 network, with all the T's and terminators you'll need to connect the plotter and GPS to the network, including the T and power cable (the NMEA 2000 networks needs powering). The GMI 10 also has more than enough NMEA 2000 hardware for you to add it to the network. I would join 3 T's together close to the plotter, one connected to power, on to the plotter and the last on connected to the GPS, terminate the outer most T's. This will leave a long backbone cable spare. The 5012 has 4 NMEA 0183 input ports and 2 output ports (each of these can connect to up to 4 devices). So, stick the AIS on an input port and set the port to high speed.
If you went for the tri-ducer, that obviously connects to the NMEA 2000 network, not sure how much hardware that includes. It will only supply basic data though. With a price tag of over £200, i'd suggest fitting a Garmin 400c fishfinder might be worth considering. This would also connect to the plotter via NMEA 0183, allowing digital depth and temp on the 5012.
You'll still have spare ports to connect the VHF/
If you opted for radar at any point, that would connect to a Garmin network port and the radome includes all the cable you'd need.
PaulGooch
Well-Known Member
Perhaps a bit of a simplistic answer on my part, that wasn't meant to be taken too literally. You are of course correct that they use a collar at the plotter end. Garmin actually use the same collar at the radome end of the radar cable, which is just a standard Cat5e cable with non latching plugs and locking collars (as you say). Where the Garmin plotter benefits over the Raymarine equivalents, is by having three network ports, which is really the point i was making (badly lol). Actually, you only need to buy one cable to make a network between two plotters, radar and a black box fishfinder, as the radar and fishfinder are supplied with cables. OK, you couldn't quite do it for 99p, but a pack of Garmin plugs for about £7.50 and some cable makes for an awfully cheap network.
Same setup with Raymarine and you need a £250 hub plus a £40 plus cable to the plotter.
Out of interest David, what makes you say the cable must be tinned ? Because it's for marine use ? Can't swear to it without double checking, but i'm pretty sure the Garmin cables aren't tinned.
David2452
Well-Known Member
Not just tinned (for hostile environment) Paul, but unlike almost all the usual high street cat5e cable it should be multi stranded as the single core stuff will fatigue with vibration and flexing. I believe the Garmin stuff is tinned as it is NMEA certified which it could not be unless it is constructed as I describe. In fact there were some Garmin N2K cables that had to be removed from the market and stock because the carried N2K approved label and were not so they are a bit careful about it now.
PaulGooch
Well-Known Member
Yeah, i realised the need for multi strand. Just checked a left over length of Garmin marine network cable and it's definitely not tinned, mind you, none of the wiring on my boat is tinned as far as i know.
gjgm
Well-Known Member
Ok Paul, thanks for that.
Now, can you remould the helm for me
Now, can you remould the helm for me
David2452
Well-Known Member
All the N2K cables must be tinned or they cannot NMEA certified, actually any NMEA Certified Marine Electronics installer using anything but tinned cable of any type be it AC / DC / Data would be outside the parameters where (s)he could certify the installation in accordance with NMEA 0400 installation standard. I guess it is possible that the cat5, cable supplied with Garmin stuff is not NMEA certified (will check)
I've never understood why people don't use tinned cables and mostly people cite cost but I can buy it at only a 30% premium over good quality thinwall copper stranded. I pay under 30p a metre for 35/030 which is the bulk.
I've never understood why people don't use tinned cables and mostly people cite cost but I can buy it at only a 30% premium over good quality thinwall copper stranded. I pay under 30p a metre for 35/030 which is the bulk.
PaulGooch
Well-Known Member
Ok Paul, thanks for that.
Now, can you remould the helm for me
JFM's the man for helm remodelling i believe.
PaulGooch
Well-Known Member
My whole boat, a production Jeanneau built in 2003, is wired with normal multistrand copper David. In all honesty i don't think it needs to be tinned. My last Princess was 30 years old and the copper was still ok, although the wiring was a major rats nest lol.
Not sure what the deal is with the Garmin network cable, maybe because it's not an N2K cable ? If it makes a difference, it's only a few months old.
David2452
Well-Known Member
Paul, I personally think that good quality copper cable with properly performed, maintained and protected terminals in protected places is not really an issue Paul, My 5 year old Benny has copper too. Any work I do myself is tinned though, particularly as the cost differential is not as high as many people’s perception. The RCD and BSI do not call for tinned, though they do insist on two levels of stranding dependant on whether the cable is subjected to frequent flexing or just normal on board vibration and small level of flexing. When it comes to critical nav system data cables though I certainly believe that the small cross-section and potential for resistance increase caused by erosion and corrosion makes using tinned a must, but that’s just me. I’ve seen 30 year old boats with copper that has stood up well, I have also seen 10 or 12 year old boats with fairly high levels of terminal corrosion.
