trevbouy
Active member
Seems the front section has broken as it rises and falls separately in the swell.
Gaff schooner sunk in Brixham
- Thread starter Gary Fox
- Start date
prv
Well-known member
Insurance normally covers "removal of wreck", and most harbours in theory require vessels therein to be insured. The operative word being "in theory" - if someone more or less abandons an uninsured boat-shaped lump of rusty cement in your port, it's not clear what you as harbourmaster can practically do about it.
If they know the owner, I guess they send him a bill for recovery, and follow it up with a civil claim if he doesn't pay. But that assumes he has any money in the first place, which the owner of an abandoned boat-shaped lump of rusty cement may not do.
Pete
Bajansailor
Well-known member
Even ferro yachts in good condition have a hard time obtaining insurance cover - aided no doubt by the many 'amateur' built vessels that helped to give them a bad reputation.
Ferro advocates preach about how strong they are - yes, cement is very strong in compression, but very weak in tension, unless it has steel added - and even then there are all the areas of cement between the bits of steel in the structure that are thus weaker.
About 20 years ago a 38' ferro yacht (built to a high standard) washed ashore here in the aftermath of a hurricane that passed nearby - she came ashore on a gently sloping sandy beach. In spite of this, there were many cracks sustained in the hull, and she was broken up by a JCB and taken away in skips.
A 37' single chine plywood yacht (fin keel and spade rudder) also came ashore on the same beach at the same time - her rudder broke off, and she sustained one small hole punctured in the hull, but she was recovered and quickly repaired, and was sailing again soon after.
Some friends sailed out here from England on their 40' ferro junk schooner 'El Lobo' about 15 years ago - from here they sailed to Tobago, where an errant jet ski had an altercation with them, tee-boning the hull amidships. And the bow of the fibreglass jet ski punched a hole in the hull (between bits of steel), thankfully above the waterline.
One positive aspect of ferro construction (one of the few) is that small holes like this are easily repaired.
John Rodriguez has now sold this ferro schooner twice - I remember the asking price the first time around being in the high two hundreds, and then it gradually reduced - second time around and the new owners had spent a fortune on re-fitting her, and then her new asking price was GBP 175k, and the odds are that she sold for a fair bit less.
Boat Details - John Rodriguez Yachts
Moral of the story - be very wary of ferro yachts, even in good condition like Wild Knight, and stay well clear of 'ferro fixer uppers'!
Ferro advocates preach about how strong they are - yes, cement is very strong in compression, but very weak in tension, unless it has steel added - and even then there are all the areas of cement between the bits of steel in the structure that are thus weaker.
About 20 years ago a 38' ferro yacht (built to a high standard) washed ashore here in the aftermath of a hurricane that passed nearby - she came ashore on a gently sloping sandy beach. In spite of this, there were many cracks sustained in the hull, and she was broken up by a JCB and taken away in skips.
A 37' single chine plywood yacht (fin keel and spade rudder) also came ashore on the same beach at the same time - her rudder broke off, and she sustained one small hole punctured in the hull, but she was recovered and quickly repaired, and was sailing again soon after.
Some friends sailed out here from England on their 40' ferro junk schooner 'El Lobo' about 15 years ago - from here they sailed to Tobago, where an errant jet ski had an altercation with them, tee-boning the hull amidships. And the bow of the fibreglass jet ski punched a hole in the hull (between bits of steel), thankfully above the waterline.
One positive aspect of ferro construction (one of the few) is that small holes like this are easily repaired.
John Rodriguez has now sold this ferro schooner twice - I remember the asking price the first time around being in the high two hundreds, and then it gradually reduced - second time around and the new owners had spent a fortune on re-fitting her, and then her new asking price was GBP 175k, and the odds are that she sold for a fair bit less.
Boat Details - John Rodriguez Yachts
Moral of the story - be very wary of ferro yachts, even in good condition like Wild Knight, and stay well clear of 'ferro fixer uppers'!
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dgadee
Well-known member
I know one owner who could not get insurance anywhere for his ferro hull. Very nice boat it was, too.
Very interesting about the damage to the beached hull. I remember it being touted as an advantage that they were very flexible and could take more punishment than other forms. Maybe bulkheads undermine that?
Shaddickp
Member
I was moored a couple of boats along from her over 2015 - 2016. Every time I went down to my boat I expected to see her sunk. Odd thing was occasionally she would be low in the water and other times I would see water being pumped out, so, although I never saw anyone on her, the bilge pump must have worked, possibly automatically. She was quite useful as she helped dampen the waves and swell for my boat in North Easterlies.
TernVI
Well-known member
I know a few people who did great sailing on ferro boats when nothing else of a similar size would have been affordable.
Different world now, plenty of sound old GRP hulls about.
I would think there have not been many new ferro boats for 30 years, so they are mostly along way through their life expectancy by now?
At least they can be 'recycled' into hardcore and steel scrap.
Different world now, plenty of sound old GRP hulls about.
I would think there have not been many new ferro boats for 30 years, so they are mostly along way through their life expectancy by now?
At least they can be 'recycled' into hardcore and steel scrap.
HissyFit
Active member
If the promised advent of low cost flash graphene as a structural additive to concrete comes to fruition, perhaps we'll see the re-birth of cement boats.
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
If all the promises about graphene come true we'll soon be eating space food and living on Mars. See also: buckyballs.
HissyFit
Active member
Some of the promises have already come true, if you can afford them. I still believe that there is scope to refine the manufacturing process to up production quantities and thus cut costs.
Ahhh, buckyballs: what fun could be had with a stick of graphite and twenty daisy-chained arc welders.
Gary Fox
N/A
Is it suitable for bearded 1970's hippies to make a blue-water cruiser in a farmer's field?
HissyFit
Active member
I suspect they might be more interested in the production of hemp fibre. Graphene is certainly causing some excitement in the construction industry as a cement additive, if only the volumes were available.
dom
Well-known member
Except graphene concrete is electrically conductive so the boat’s steel structure will be slowly fizzing away on top of all the other problems!
There are solutions but the price would probably be prohibitive.
?
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
Paint? Works for steel boats, which are also electrically conductive.
dom
Well-known member
True, but really needs to be epoxy based to be durable which equals controlled application + maintenance + money and all that jazz. Then there’s the isolation etc on what is supposed to be a cheap n cheerful DIY home-build solution?
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
I think your last point - emboldened - identifies the problem. Ferrocement was seen as cheap and cheerful, and while that might have been the case for hulls, the hull is only a small part of the cost of a finished boat. A lot of people looked at the materials prices, thought "Wahay", slapped together a 40 or 50 foot hull ... and then discovered how much a single sheet winch for that size of boat costs.
dom
Well-known member
Yep, a big heavy hull needs lots of ballast and such a structure requires a big expensive rig to power it. Which is consequently rejected in favour of some doubtful ketch / schooner combination.
A dud is thus born in all but the eyes of the beholder who can’t afford it. Sad, including for the hapless harbour master who has to tidy up the mess from his sea bed.
Sandy
Well-known member
Another sinking, if one was needed, to prove that somehow all the festering, abandoned vessels around our shores need to be removed. That will cost and nobody wants to pay.
chrishscorp
Well-known member
I did read that they had proactively taken off the boat prior to it sinking, the oil and diesel fuel, there is some contamination but they think that may be from oil in the generator onboard. They are looking at a bill of £100k to clear her.
trevbouy
Active member
There's a Notice to Mariners as they have moved the Town pontoon in readiness to remove the boat. Looks a bit exposed if you don't keep your eyes open in the harbour.
Screengrab of the 'wreck'
Screengrab of the 'wreck'
luke collins
Active member
I did read about this on a commercial marine email that a salvage operation would be carried out and if I recall it was big money quoted (100k plus)