gaff cutter heavy weather sail combinations

[westernman]

I am interested to hear what sail combinations people use.

Last weekend we were caught out in a F8 and actually had a cracking sail with two reefs in the main and without the jib. We did have a fair bit of weather helm. The next step would have been to put a reef in the staysail. We were comfortable, but if the wind had shown any sign of increasing, the reef would have had to go into the staysail, and the third reef into the main (reef points not made up as is usual - not quite sure of the procedure for that). Or more likely we would have just hove to. The nearest obstruction was the Balearics at a comfortable 150 miles distance.

Our reason for lowering the jib is that we find it a right pain to handle in almost any wind. When lowering, it always wants to jump into the sea. So we prefer to get it down before getting into really exciting conditions.

I have down on the boat a storm jib (which I have never used), and a storm staysail which corresponds in size to about the working staysail with a reef.
I can' see much point for either of those sails. I also have a trysail, but I expect that to be a real faff to rig up, so by the time it is needed I would probably be under bare poles instead.

So what combinations do you use and why?

 

[Carlotta]

Apart from the obvious weather helm, I find the boat really loses forward drive when the jib is struck and sailing under just the stays'l.
What's nice about that spitfire jib you've got is it keeps the helm somewhat balanced and sets high and small enough that it's not going to fill with water in a heavy seaway. Next time try setting the spitfire and putting a reef in the stays'l. That should be a comfortable ride with 1 or 2 reefs in the main.
I suggest getting your reefing sorted out so it's possible to pull down that third reef too.
The trys'l - I'd only put it aboard for an extended offshore passage for cases of extreme weather or if you lost your mains'l or mainboom.

We have a roller reefing main - but this is how I see reducing levels of sail area with us:
full main with gaff tops'l , working stays'l , working jib
full main, working stay'l, working jib
roll in main, working stay'l, working jib
roll more on main, reef stay'l, #2 or spitfire jib
roll more on main, 2nd reef stays'l , spitfire jib
heave to and go below to make tea... and pray.
I like the idea of a reefed mains'l and the spitfire set with no stays'l. but I haven't tried it yet to see if I could heave to with that combination.

Of course these are all weather and timing dependant and crew aboard too. If it's forecast to blow hard and night is coming on I won't neccesarily do every step above! (tea comes first most times!)
hope this helps
Stephen

 

[westernman]

Apart from the obvious weather helm, I find the boat really loses forward drive when the jib is struck and sailing under just the stays'l.
What's nice about that spitfire jib you've got is it keeps the helm somewhat balanced and sets high and small enough that it's not going to fill with water in a heavy seaway. Next time try setting the spitfire and putting a reef in the stays'l. That should be a comfortable ride with 1 or 2 reefs in the main.
I suggest getting your reefing sorted out so it's possible to pull down that third reef too.
The trys'l - I'd only put it aboard for an extended offshore passage for cases of extreme weather or if you lost your mains'l or mainboom.

We have a roller reefing main - but this is how I see reducing levels of sail area with us:
full main with gaff tops'l , working stays'l , working jib
full main, working stay'l, working jib
roll in main, working stay'l, working jib
roll more on main, reef stay'l, #2 or spitfire jib
roll more on main, 2nd reef stays'l , spitfire jib
heave to and go below to make tea... and pray.
I like the idea of a reefed mains'l and the spitfire set with no stays'l. but I haven't tried it yet to see if I could heave to with that combination.

Of course these are all weather and timing dependant and crew aboard too. If it's forecast to blow hard and night is coming on I won't neccesarily do every step above! (tea comes first most times!)
hope this helps
Stephen

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I find that dropping either the staysail of the jib reduces enourmously the power in the rig and the heeling moment. We can sail very well on all points with either one or the other dropped.

As I said, we find handing the jib in a blow a bit of a challenge and are keen to get rid of it early on if there is any likelihood of having to lower it in windiy conditions later e.g. in the approach to a port. The easiest way we found to hand the jib is to do it when hove to, to bring it in on the traveller and to hand it as far as possible in the lee of the backed staysail.

Lowering the staysail under any conditions is always easy.

We don't get too much practice at reducing sail.

The reefing penants are both set up for the third reef in the main but not the reef points. I think this is standard practice. I need to check we have the appropriate pieces of string to tie in those third set of points on the boat.

 

[Lyulph Hesling]

Have you considered a modern furling gear, as used for asymetrics? These work very well (much better than the old Wyke Martin gear); use the luff wire, not a foil, so your existing sails should fit; allow furling from the cockpit, using a continuos rope loop; are not obstrusive; and are available from £200 for a small sail (Plastismo).

I sometimes sail on a boat with these fitted to jib and staysail. Reefing is quick (and therefore happens), and it is very convenient when mooring.

 

[prv]

Have you considered a modern furling gear, as used for asymetrics? These work very well (much better than the old Wyke Martin gear); use the luff wire, not a foil, so your existing sails should fit; allow furling from the cockpit, using a continuos rope loop; are not obstrusive;

You say they're "much better than Wykeham Martin gear", but you don't say why. Everything you've listed applies equally to WM (apart from the rope loop rather than a single line, but so what?). The new things may be better, but you'll need to say why.

Pete

 

[Lyulph Hesling]

Having used both on the same boat, the Wyken Martin gear tended to jam up easily, was hard (or stiff) to use, and then ran out of rope just before you got to the tack. The new kit doesn't. Both do the same job (in the end) and it is very helpful in a blow!

 

[Woodlouse]

Wykham Martin gear is roller furling only. There is not enough strength in the gear to allow for roller reefing. Roller furling headsails gives poor sail shape in deep reefs too, plus you end up with a lot of useless weight and windage high up in the rig when the wind is really blowing.

Back onto topic though...

In heavy weather, the risk of taking down the jib is it leaves the bowsprit vulnerable. Having a topmast forestay lessens this, but only if you have topmast runners, otherwise your topmast is at risk as well. So, if you take in your jib, then think very seriously about bringing the bowsprit inboard too. The accounts I've read of the Pilot Cutters lead me to believe that this was standard practice, almost to the point of bringing the bowsprit inboard instead of bringing the jib in with the traveller.

Rigging the 3rd reef is a great help in strong winds, and will reduce the weather helm, especially if you've taken the jib in. The way I would do this is take one end of the line for the first reef, and put it through the 3rd reef then through the 3rd reef sheath. If you ease the peak and the topping lifts and pull in the mainsheet when hove to then this can be achieved with the minimum of heroics.

It's hard to give specific sail set ups for various situations as they would obviously change with the wind direction, weather you're racing or in a hurry, strong crew, weak crew etc.

Don't ignore the Spitfire jib. The storm staysail sounds a bit pointless if it's the same size as the reefed staysail and a trysail is just hassle if comparable to the size of the 3rd reef in the main, which I'd wager it is.

You say your jib always tries to dump it's self over the side. How do you recover it normally? If you bring the tack in with the traveller first, then pull the sail down by the luff then you should never lose control of the sail, even if single handed on the foredeck.

 

[prv]

Wykham Martin gear is roller furling only. There is not enough strength in the gear to allow for roller reefing.

I know - I have both (reefing staysail and Wkyeham-Martin jib). But Lyulph was talking about "modern furling gear, as used for assymetrics". I assumed he meant the ones with a rope instead of a foil, and a kind of buntline to pull the middle of the sail in to the rope. Apart from the continuous loop of furling line, they seem to be pretty much a Wykeham-Martin executed in modern materials.

Pete

 

[Kukri]

The only storm sail I carry is a Wykeham Martin fitted spitfire jib.

We will sail under spitfire jib, reefed staysail and close reefed mainsail, up to the point where sailing is not really on any more (this is to do with wear and tear on the crew not the boat) at which point I heave to under the same combination of sails.

Beyond that (only happened once) stow the jib, drop the mainsail let the staysail draw and heave to under close reefed staysail only, which, curiously, she does rather well.

Good advice in RD Graham and JEH Tew's "Manual for Small Yachts" - "... we prefer to reef the staysail early in the proceedings.." - so do I.

 

[oldfrank]

Those smart, brass Wykeham Martin furlers aren't up the the job on a big rig and display an alarming tendency to pull in two. Anyone who's tried to recapture a Wykeham Martin, flailing about on the end of an angry foresail will know just how alarming!

 

[Kukri]

Those smart, brass Wykeham Martin furlers aren't up the the job on a big rig and display an alarming tendency to pull in two. Anyone who's tried to recapture a Wykeham Martin, flailing about on the end of an angry foresail will know just how alarming!

Have not had that problem, mind you I am using a no.4 size (for a 20 tonner) on a 12 tonner. I cannot imagine how it could pull apart; it is massive.