From disspointing to infuriating and beyond

[MapisM]

But sadly when I come to sell you aren't going to buy the boat from me.

I understood that you were going to keep her in Spain, J?
I'm asking because - just FYI - most of the typical Med buyers for a boat like that are very unlikely to pay a surveyor upon purchase.
As long as she looks nice and she behaves well upon sea trial of course, but that's all most folks would expect.
TBH, I'm not sure I'd pay a survey myself, even being aware of these risks, because I would think that at this ballpark boat value I'd rather keep the survey cost in my pocket, knowing that there will be reasons to spend it regardless of any survey result.
I understand that what happened might have turned you off, but just another thought along the lines of pragmatism, fwiw...

 

[petem]

I understood that you were going to keep her in Spain, J?
I'm asking because - just FYI - most of the typical Med buyers for a boat like that are very unlikely to pay a surveyor upon purchase.
As long as she looks nice and she behaves well upon sea trial of course, but that's all most folks would expect.
TBH, I'm not sure I'd pay a survey myself, even being aware of these risks, because I would think that at this ballpark boat value I'd rather keep the survey cost in my pocket, knowing that there will be reasons to spend it regardless of any survey result.
I understand that what happened might have turned you off, but just another thought along the lines of pragmatism, fwiw...

But to be fair to Jez, I doubt that he'd have the contingency funds that you have in case something does go wrong. And therein lies the dilemma of whether you should buy boats if you can only just afford it. A question I frequently ask myself! Of course the answer is 'probably not' but sometimes life is too short to wait until you can properly afford it.

What is it they say 'memories are more permanent than dreams'!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Ref build, if it is 2000, then we are talking hand laid GRP, Divinycell core, and I don't know about vacuum bagging to bond the blind side of the Divinycell but let's hope they did. !

I was told that my yr2000 AZ46 was constructed using vacuum bagging and that Azimut had already been using this tecnique for several years so this AZ42 is likely to have been constructed in the same way

 

[Whitelighter]

It's not so much about contingency.

A survey is required for funding. So to not have one is not an option.
I expect some spend after purchase. I have a reserve to pay for this.

I can't afford to spend £65k on something that might only be worth £40k or worthless because of a major defect, even if it is only perceived. A green hulled targa is not worth as much as a blue hulled one but it still functions as a boat. That's just buyers for you.

Right now thus is becoming stressful and not at all fun. 3k to just be able to forget about it and actually get some sleep tonight in reality looks like a pretty good deal.

 

[petem]

A green hulled targa is not worth as much as a blue hulled one but it still functions as a boat.

And easily re-sprayed or wrapped!

I feel for you Jez.

 

[Elessar]

hotvac

more info here; http://www.hotvac.com/faq/default.aspx

had a friend that went through this process with a princess 65 in Palma.. worked for him.

Hotvac is for osmosis. This is not osmosis it is a saturated core.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Of course the answer is 'probably not' but sometimes life is too short to wait until you can properly afford it.

What is it they say 'memories are more permanent than dreams'!

Yeah but then there's the other proverb along the lines of buying in haste and repenting at your leisure! I must admit though that I'm having difficulty understanding Jez's position on this boat. Every used boat has problems and in this case, the problem is high moisture content in the hull. As I said previously, normally a buyer would either insist that the seller rectifies the problem or more likely, the buyer uses this situation to negotiate a reduction in the price to compensate him for the cost of rectifying the problem. I'm not sure why Jez doesn't seem willing to try to do this although I do understand his disappointment with the survey findings

 

[Whitelighter]

Because the seller won't rectify it and won't reduce the price.

He just wants me to accept the boat at the price regardless of problems.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Because the seller won't rectify it and won't reduce the price.

He just wants me to accept the boat at the price regardless of problems.

But isn't it already super-cheap, compared to the rest of the market (especially at £59k, following jfm's man-maths)?

Edit: is it worth a second-opinion survey, which you would need for your financing anyway? Ideally from a surveyor who is specifically familiar with this model?

 

[Whitelighter]

But isn't it already super-cheap, compared to the rest of the market (especially at £59k, following jfm's man-maths)?

Edit: is it worth a second-opinion survey, which you would need for your financing anyway?

Yes, a second survey is probably worthwhile. Though the broker is insisting on completion by next Friday or invoke the default clause. He doesn't see the need for a second survey so he has basically said pay up or f**k off. I could potentially get a guy out on Tuesday- though despite weeks of promises he still hasn't priduced any of the boat papers apart from the blue book. We still haven't seen builders cert, compliance doc, vat invoice (don't start JFM - it is required), or previous BoS

If they'd advertised it as requiring work etc then fair enough. They didn't. They advertised as a boat with no defects, new stern gear, new generator and a full refit.

 

[petem]

Yes, a second survey is probably worthwhile. Though the broker is insisting on completion by next Friday or invoke the default clause. He doesn't see the need for a second survey so he has basically said pay up or f**k off. I could potentially get a guy out on Tuesday- though despite weeks of promises he still hasn't priduced any of the boat papers apart from the blue book. We still haven't seen builders cert, compliance doc, vat invoice (don't start JFM - it is required), or previous BoS

All this makes the boats.co.uk foreign boat buying scheme look a bit of a bargain!

 

[Nick_H]

Jez, have you spoken to a GRP expert, rather than a generalist surveyor? You've had a long search for the right boat at an affordable price, you've got knowledgeable people on here saying it's unlikely to be a problem in use, and that med buyers are not switched off by moisture in the GRP and don't use surveyors anyway, plus you've already sunk £3k into it.

Perhaps a chat with Osmotech, or similarly knowledgeable person or company would put your mind at rest, rather than going back to square one?

 

[Whitelighter]

All this makes the boats.co.uk foreign boat buying scheme look a bit of a bargain!

Well I've spent £3,000 they'd want £6,500 but yes, I think there is a market for it.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Because the seller won't rectify it and won't reduce the price.

He just wants me to accept the boat at the price regardless of problems.

In that case, get an idea from somebody like Osmotech of the likely cost of dealing with the issue and decide whether the boat is still a bargain or not

 

[Whitelighter]

Jez, have you spoken to a GRP expert, rather than a generalist surveyor? You've had a long search for the right boat at an affordable price, you've got knowledgeable people on here saying it's unlikely to be a problem in use, and that med buyers are not switched off by moisture in the GRP and don't use surveyors anyway, plus you've already sunk £3k into it.

Perhaps a chat with Osmotech, or similarly knowledgeable person or company would put your mind at rest, rather than going back to square one?

You might be right. But, the broker won't budge from the 26th completion requirement. So I have a week. Under that pressure Id rather lose 3k than 60k.

The broker is a c**t and actually Id rather never speak to him again. Actually I think this thread has been pretty useful. It seems I am a lot more risk averse than I was 8 years ago when I bought the Bavaria. I think petem maybe has stumbled on a valid point of view. Maybe I'm trying to achieve something that I can't actually do. Just typing about the boat is making me feel sick, probably not helped by my lack of sleep last night. I'm working the next two days and my job requires 100% of my time while I'm there.

No doubt you are all correct and i should just accept it. But I have zero trust in the broker now, I don't trust anything he has ever told me and I'm not even sure he has the papers I need to own the boat.

What's more I think I'm done with the whole med project. It's just not worth the stress. I fully accept I'm at the povity minnow end of the boating world. I've always made it work and done things on a bit of a budget but I've always persevered.
I did get the contract checked by a firm i trust and one more than a few people have used on here so I'm disappointed that there are holes that were not made apparent to me. I'm disappointed that rather than offer solutions the brokers first reaction is to say buy it or we'll sue.

I'm disappointed that the last thing I want right now is any boat, never mind this boat - somewhere I never thought I'd be.

If there was time then I think after all your points the deal could be rescued but with only a week I can't see it happening

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Y We still haven't seen builders cert, compliance doc, vat invoice (don't start JFM - it is required), or previous BoS

I didn't realise that. That would be a dealbreaker as far as I'm concerned. No documents, no completion

 

[Whitelighter]

I didn't realise that. That would be a dealbreaker as far as I'm concerned. No documents, no completion

They keep saying originals are with the registry and they'll get copies.
They were supposed to get copies on Monday.
Still nothing

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

They keep saying originals are with the registry and they'll get copies.
They were supposed to get copies on Monday.
Still nothing

FWIW, I learnt my lesson with that kind of promise when I first bought a boat in Europe some years ago. Nowadays I sit in the brokers office and demand that the original documentation is put in front of me before I call my bank to release the funds.

 

[Whitelighter]

FWIW, I learnt my lesson with that kind of promise when I first bought a boat in Europe some years ago. Nowadays I sit in the brokers office and demand that the original documentation is put in front of me before I call my bank to release the funds.

Absolutely. There is no way they'd get the balance before I had originals.
That was added to the MOA

 

[petem]

Jez, I think you should consider MapisM's offer to help and perhaps get him to have an informal IT to IT conversation with the broker and see if he can agree some kind of resolution. Maybe MapisM has contacts who know the broker.

Perhaps try to get some of the deposit returned then walk away?

Pete