French port info, please..

[charles_reed]

Getting your fine back

I got done in Camaret many years ago because I'd secreted the ship's papers in an unbelievably safe place, and when these two arrived and demanded papers I couldn't find them. Result on-the-spot fine of FF500.

I found them and went up to the Douaniers where they grudgingly repaid me FF450 - the rest was kept as an "administrative fee".

I've never gone back to Camaret since.

I've found the blue ensign a useful protection - they assume you're ex-militaire or even, in the case of la Rochelle, ex Customs and Excise.

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[Robin]

Re: Getting your fine back

Strangely I haven't seen them in Camaret and I rather like it, not least for a half decent supermarket as the first stock up on the way south. Biggest problem this year was that the enlarged outer marina had taken over some of the visitor buoys and the remainder are now 50% for permanent moorings, the anchoring space is significantly reduced and this year was full. We had to use the marina despite not needing to and using the dinghy anyway rather than carry the shopping miles on foot, the new inner marina visitors bit was also full.

We were Duaned whilst/despite/because wearing a blue ensign, albeit defaced though you can never see the club insignia as it collapses and folds over it so nowadays we fly a red only, unless in club company. Replacing our club ensign is a 2nd mortgage job.

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[Doug_Stormforce]

I guess we are just lucky, I have never been bordeded or even asked any questions ever in France. I make about twelve visits a year and have been doing so for the last four or five years to a variety of North Coast ports.

I have only visited Holland three times and was borded by customs and immigration about 15 miles offshore the first time and in Vlissingen in port on the third time. On both occasions they took about an hout to check all our papers and have a quick look the boat.

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[Gunfleet]

Your boat is too big, Robin! i've never got above 26 feet and never had anything other than a very friendly and cursory examination by either douanes or gendarmes maritime. Seriously I think there is a bit of reverse snobbery in France - I lived there for some years and it's obvious if you do. Good luck next time you meet them.

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[Robin]

All of our visits by customs were on our previous Westerly 33 and since changing to our current Jeanneau 41 we have been seen, even had a friendly wave, but left alone! Maybe that is the answer, buy a French built boat.

I should stress though that our visits were collected over many years and we have never had any cause for concern other than some slight inconvenience, les Douaniers have always been most courteous. We are prepared in that we make sure we have all our documents together should we be asked to produce them and our log is kept up to date to show where we have been & when. We have been 'visited' more often when outside of harbour than inside, usually when anchored off somewhere.

We have had visits on the UK side too over the years and the same caveats apply - be polite and no silly jokes about where the hidden drugs or passengers are. I was stopped once many many years ago on Studland beach whilst walking the dog late one Friday night, the Excise man came by car and asked if I could prove I had only come out of Poole a few hours earlier for the weekend and that the dog was not a French speaking rabies carrier!

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[graham]

Dodging EU red tape I can whole heartedly support .

Unfortunately information on ports you are least likely to encounter any customs people could be usefull for less worthwile causes.

Are we wise to keep adding to this post ?


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[TonyMS]

We seem to get "controlled" between 1 and 3 times every year. Always courteous, and often friendly and willing to have a chat, they only seem to want to record some data from the SSR and passports. Whole business only takes 5 or 10 minutes. After the 3rd time a couple of years ago, I asked why so often - "because your boat is so beautiful, we all want to have a look"!

Boulogne is the most active - maybe there is a customs school there. In our experience they only operate between 9 and 5, and chiefly pounce when you're approaching a port.

We've tried asking for a fiche - they'd "run out".

We've had some fun with them. Off Boulogne in a F5, they asked us to sail in "that direction" - straight up wind. Obliged by sheeting in tight and sailing close, so that our 4 douaniers with their submachine guns perched on the coamings had waves breaking over them. Another time, coming in to Lezadrieux we were doing 10 knts on a broad reach and they all got nicely soaked boarding us.

Tony

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[Sybarite]

Re: Very dodgy looking

I have regularly been checked because I am registered in France but as a foreigner resident in France. I therefore have a "passeport" rather than an "Acte de Francisation" which French citizens have. As such I wear a red ensign.

Recently I have been told that I am in "grosse infraction" because I do not have an SSR. I told them that I have "rien à foutre" with an English registration because I am a French resident (and an Irish citizen but only a British subject...)and you must be "ordinarily resident" in the UK to get one. The alternative is to go for a full registration because this involves having the boat officially measured by an approved body in the UK (and "I have no intention of sailing my boat to the UK" (at least for this purpose) ; and considerable expense which I refuse to pay as I have already paid to have the boat registered in France and this is a constraint on the principle of free movement of assets within the EU.

Each time they have said thay need to check back with their base and I have heard no more about it. Especially when I add that the age of my boat now exonerates it from the payment of the annual "vignette"....

John

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[dulcibella]

Re: Very dodgy looking

I've been boarded once in 17 years (about 10 years ago) with 4-10 crossings per year. They just wanted to see passports and ship's papers - no problems.


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[Gunfleet]

Black spot..

<<I was stopped once many many years ago on Studland beach whilst walking the dog >>
They don't help themselves, do they? I was politely questioned by a C&E man on an Essex hard a few years ago about where I'd just come from. Since he'd just sat in his car watching me tinkering about with the boat on the mooring i thought he was having a laugh at my expense. He was one-legged but in uniform, by the way. He should have been in Treasure Island.

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[Gunfleet]

The Channel islands is outside the EU.

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[Pearson_424]

Re: Les Douaniers

I'd like to thank you all for replying (and encourage others to do so, if they can add to the collective wisdom). My conclusions from these postings so far is that boardings are fairly common but still erratic enough that some may never be boarded. I was also hoping for a perspective on boarding frequency and issues of concern between the northern & Brittany French coasts and those deep in Biscay and the Med...but I realize that most who post here might not have much chance to exeprience Les Douaniers in those more distant areas.

To the person who was worried about 'security secrets' being divulged in this thread, I can only wonder what reliable, specific conclusions one could draw!?

I stood around HM Customs booth at the London show last year and listened to the steady stream of queries & complaints being delivered by British yachtsmen who were finding their French neighbors enforcing rules which did not exist or at the least misinterpreting them, while HMC staff delivered empathy and shaking heads in equal measure. It was a bit reassuring to me, in a negative sort of way. If the Brits live next door and are part of the EU, yet can't escape a hassle, I should probably adjust my expectations accordingly. Then a senior HMC official took me aside and explained that the French Customs folks wear a national uniform but bureaucratically report up via a Provincial chain of command...which he suggested is why VAT-related issues seem to be handled so differently from one port to the next. (One U.S. boat recently claimed French Customs wanted to collect EU VAT because the yacht had been in the EU longer than 6 months, just like in 'the old days'). He also mentioned, as Charles points out, that the provincial govts. employ differing rules in what is done with fines & fees, thereby generating a bit of self-interest in how 'diligent' some officials choose to be.

This whole EU affair is a bit like watching a U.S. soap opera for us, and that's as true with yachting as anything else, I find. Thank you again for help.

Jack

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[Sailfree]

If your boat has a marine mortgage with Lombard Marine they insist on holding the original receipt - showing VAT paid. I pointed out that I needed original document to produce in France they sent me a photocopy certified as true. I doubt whether the French customs would have accepted this.

On a charter boat only a copy of the registration is kept on board yet many Charter boats sail to France.

Is it just that we have never heard of any being stopped?

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[tome]

If your vessel is British registered, then the question of VAT status is de facto subject to British and not French jurisdiction. This, I believe, is the reason why HMCE are reluctant to issue VAT-paid certificates on the basis that they shouldnt be required by foreign jurisdictions.

Registration is a different matter, and they can insist on seeking confirmation of valid registry as well as your passports. They can also insist on seeing a valid ships radio licence and at least one valid operators certificate AFAIR.

Has anyone ever been fined for non-production of VAT documents outside their flag country?

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[snowleopard]

if you laminate a copy of your registration document, how is anyone going to tell the difference?

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