French inspect life jackets...

[westernman]

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Been a big thread about this recently.

1. You must carry in date flares and they must be 3 red hand held; 3 parachute and 2 floating smoke. This is incidentally the standard "coastal" pack bought in French chandlers.


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You need the 3 red hand flares if more than 2 miles from a safe haven.
The other flares are not needed unless you are more than 6 miles from a safe haven and you do not have a DSC radio.
I.e. you only need the 3 red hand flares if you have a DSC radio.

Check carefully the wording in article 240-3.09 and the annex 240-A.5 as modified on the 11th March 2008.

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2. You must carry a lifejacket for each crew member.


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Also on a sailing boat, there must be a harness for each crew member. On a mobo there must be at least one harness (> 6nm)

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3. You must carry a liferaft(s) that will accommodate all crew carried - you only do not need one if you are only sailing less than 6nm from a safe haven.


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The liferaft is not needed on a boat which is officially classified as unsinkable!

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The comment above about having a DSC/VHF and not needing flares is incorrect. The new rule is that if you have a DSC/VHF but do not go more than 6nm from a safe haven, you only need 3 red hand held flares. This would only apply to boats that are based in France and doing short coastal hops say in the Gulf of Morbihan or similar.


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You only need the 3 hand held flares. You don't need the parachute flares or the floating smoke even if more than 6nm from a safe haven if you have a DSC radio.

Re-read the latest version of 240-3.09.

 

[Cantata]

Not exactly a fan of the RYA either at the moment, but what you may have been looking for is all off this page -
http://www.rya.org.uk/KnowledgeBase/boatingabroad/Pages/unclos.aspx

 

[Pye_End]

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Not exactly a fan of the RYA either at the moment,

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Sounds like a story here somewhere....!?

 

[Koeketiene]

Thanks for the link

Copied from the RYA page

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With regards the territorial waters of another country vessels have a right of passage; all vessels exerting this right of passage must abide by international conventions - such as Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS), the International Regulation for Preventing Collisions at Sea (COLREGS) - and the Coastal State has the jurisdiction to ensure that they do so.
It may also have laws and regulations which such vessels must adhere to, to ensure safe navigation, regulation of maritime traffic, protection of navigational aids, facilities, pipelines, and cables, conservation and preservation of the environment and the living resources of the sea (including fisheries laws) and to prevent against infringement of customs, fiscal, immigration or sanitary laws and regulations of the coastal state.



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So - if there are foreign rules that require you to carry lifejackets to ensure safe navigation, then a British flagged vessel has to comply and the coastal state is within it's rights to enforce these rules.

I give it 5 posts before some-one mentions nanny state, Agincourt, Waterloo or Brussels /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Cantata]

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Not exactly a fan of the RYA either at the moment,

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Sounds like a story here somewhere....!?

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Mustn't cause Fred Drift, so I'll just say two words then go off to read the weekend papers:
'Milton' and 'Creek'.

 

[beneteau_305_553]

Flares seem to be more of a danger than help now. There are safer ways to signal position. I have got rid of mine.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

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You are also required to show your registration on demand and can get an on the spot fine if you don't. This applies to French boats as well as UK.

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Thanks for that, I hadn't realized that was the case. Google isn't being very helpful though, possibly because all information will be in French. Just to help me Google more effectively, what's the offence called? How much is the on the spot fine?

WRT the OP I would imagine they can inspect whatever they like. The more useful question might be how many prosecutions of British flagged yachts are there in France each year over flares/LJs etc. Anyone know?

 

[westernman]

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You are also required to show your registration on demand and can get an on the spot fine if you don't. This applies to French boats as well as UK.

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Thanks for that, I hadn't realized that was the case. Google isn't being very helpful though, possibly because all information will be in French. Just to help me Google more effectively, what's the offence called? How much is the on the spot fine?

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The fine for yoru registration document not being in order or not being presented when asked is up to 1500 euros and up to 3000 euros for a repeat offence.

Excessive speed less than 300metres from a beach is 3750 euros and/or 6 months in prison!

Taking stuff from a wreck is 375,000 euros and 3 years prison plus complementary penalties (whatever that is).

 

[CaptainHogwash]

So does carrying an inflatable dinghy count as a 'liferaft under the French rules?

 

[westernman]

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So does carrying an inflatable dinghy count as a 'liferaft under the French rules?

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My reading of the rules is that it does.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

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The fine for yoru registration document not being in order or not being presented when asked is up to 1500 euros and up to 3000 euros for a repeat offence.

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That's great information, thanks. 'Up to' doesn't sound like an on the spot fine; what is the fixed penalty alternative? I'm struggling to put an effective Google search together for this. What's the offence called? (Or even easier can you simply link to your source?)

 

[simonfraser]

is a wooden boat without a lead keel unsinkable in the french eyes ?
or does it need certifying ?

 

[Hoolie]

We were "inspected" by the French customs just before Christmas. They were only interested in boat documents, registration and insurance and personal identification. No interest in lifejackets, liferaft etc tho' all were in order. They had a couple of dogs although only one was brought on board for "training" purposes - we were allowed to shut our cat in the aft cabin to keep the peace! They were very polite and totally professional - no complaints at all, they're only doing their job.

 

[Tranona]

You are absolutely right. However, none of this is anything to do with the equipment you need to carry on your boat, which is solely the responsibility of your Flag State which is the UK if it is registered in the UK.

Might I suggest you pay your subscription to the RYA then you can access the Knowledge Base and look in the Taking Your Boat Abroad. Then all will be revealed and you will realise that a lot of nonsense is being talked here about the powers that foreign states have over you.

If you really keep an eye on what happens rather than listen to or create Urban Myths you will discover that French, Dutch (insert any country) regularly board foreign yachts in their waters, behave with the utmost courtesy and provided you have your papers in order, thank you kindly and wish you Bon Voyage. The same is true of British HMRC boarding foreign vessels in UK waters.

And just to make it absolutely clear the statement you quote applies equally to you and me in UK waters. Just that it is nothing to do with crewing and equipment requirements. They are not "Foreign Rules" but Universal.

 

[Anonymous]

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Might I suggest you pay your subscription to the RYA then you can access the Knowledge Base and look in the Taking Your Boat Abroad. Then all will be revealed and you will realise that a lot of nonsense is being talked here about the powers that foreign states have over you.

[/ QUOTE ]I have a problem with having to pay a company every year to find out what my legal status is -- it's a point of principle.

Here is the MCA page.........

http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga07-home...regulations.htm

Does the RYA information agree?

 

[William_H]

It would seem only reasonable that if sailing in another country's waters that you carry a reasonable level of safety and signaling gear. The country in whose waters you are sailing are the ones responsible for your rescue.
Hence while Australia respects the laws and standards of the country of foreign flagged ships there is the legal provision for ships to be impounded in port if safety gear (ie lifeboats) were in poor condition.

Likewise with aviation the country of registration of an aircraft set and maintain pilot and engineering maintenance standards. However if the aircraft is found to be unsafe then it can be grounded and this occasionally happens. This is not done with out good reason however as repercussions can be huge.

I don't think you could depart an Oz port without gear meeting the local standard regardless of country of registration. Obviously not a problem in Oz with most ports being thousands of miles from another country. If not hundreds of miles. Visitors are very few.
But considering costs of recent rescues of around the world racing yachtsmen of recent times I think it reasonable that foreign sailors make a reasonable effort to provide for their own safety.

Incidentally flares here for pleasure boats do not have to be in date. However this should only be taken advantage of within reason. ie a 10 year life might be reasonable. They only must be in date for commercial boats. It think it only time before UK boating legislation catches up with the rest of the world. olewill

 

[Anonymous]

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It would seem only reasonable that if sailing in another country's waters that you carry a reasonable level of safety and signaling gear.

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There's what's 'reasonable', what's sensible and what's the law. We all have to obey the law so we need to know exactly what that says. The other two 'what's' are voluntary and open to debate.

 

[tabernacleman]

As mentioned in the previous thread on this subject, 'passing through' territorial waters then your flag state regulations probably apply, 'visiting' other territorial waters might throw a whole lot of different responsibilities on the owner and give local 'police' powers over YOU. Someone on this thread said the maritime laws were straightforward /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

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It would seem only reasonable that if sailing in another country's waters that you carry a reasonable level of safety and signaling gear. The country in whose waters you are sailing are the ones responsible for your rescue.
Hence while Australia respects the laws and standards of the country of foreign flagged ships there is the legal provision for ships to be impounded in port if safety gear (ie lifeboats) were in poor condition.


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You are quite correct Olewill, but that only applies (legally) to commercial ships or vessels 'that are engaged in trade'. The requirements are international. There are other, additional, requirements that vary from one country to another. For example, no commercial ship is allowed inside our waters, that does not have a double hull.

But these requirements do not apply to pleasure craft that do not carry 'fare-paying passengers' or are otherwise engaged in trade. New Zealand tried it on, was challenged in court by a Malta registered yacht, and had to climb down.

 

[DownWest]

As I read it, under a change to the rules in 2008, that a life raft no longer has to be of the inflatable type. So could be a rigid tender with enough flotation and possible a canopy.
Still not the point of this thread.
A