France

[Rock]

I am hoping cross the channel & spend a week or so in France (probably Dieppe) this summer, can any body help me by letting me know what documentation etc I should take with me, and procedures etc when going 'over the other side'.
Thanks

 

[Guest]

Best to have your passport on board, just for the unlikely event that anyone asks any questions.

 

[Guest]

For "paperwork" as a minimum I suggest you take with you:

o Crew List showing Names, Addresses etc of everyone onboard.
o Passport for everyone on board.
o Proof of Vessel Ownership and that VAT has been paid.
o Vessel Registration Documentation (not the same as above).
o Vessel Insurance Certificate.
o Your own Certificate of Competence (if going on any canals).
o VHF Licence and your own VHF Operators Certificate.

Best regards )

IanD

 

[Gunfleet]

So where's the canal in Dieppe?

 

[Guest]

Lateral thinking - I can't imagine anyone staying at Dieppe for a whole week out of choice!!

Plus your writing to a man who came out of the "French" canal system at Nieuport!!!!!!!!

Best regards ))

Ian D

 

[Gunfleet]

I was storm bound there for a week once, and I'd made the mistake of telling the restaurateur at the top of my pontoon I didn't think much of his cooking right at the beginning. You know how the French like that. I had to slink past his door for six more days.

 

[Guest]

OOOOoooooooooohhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!! Slow suicide.

Once told a French friend how I just loved "pigs tongue" and how my Mum used to get one and cook it for me.

Failed to tell her that Mum soaked it in brine for three days, cooked it for about three hours, skinned it, pressed it and then served it cold and finely sliced in a sandwich.

Turned up at said friend's place one evening to find that Danielle had bought a pigs tongue chopped it up and made it into a stew - complete with taste dimples!!!!!!!!!

I managed a couple of mouthfuls and have never eaten tongue since. Luckily Danielle has forgiven me - she couldn't stand the stew herself and even her dog refused to eat it!!!

Ian D

 

[Guest]

Of course there's no harm in carrying all that, but I would say that "minimum" is a bit over the top. Basically the only extra thing you need to carry compared to the UK is your passports. It's not a bad idea to keep a copy of the insurance certificate on board too (not the original - you'll wish you left it at home if you sink).

The registration documentation is not required for UK yachts. The French authorities are sufficiently used to UK yachts to be well up to speed on this. As mentioned, a certificate of competence is also not required unless going inland (you're not).

VHF operator certificate and licence are required in the UK, so these should be on board anyway.

A simpler alternative to having a crew list is to tell them who is on board if they ask.

Proof of vessel ownership and proof of VAT paid status are only required to the same extent that they are in the UK - you could be asked for these by British customs when cruising in UK waters.

So that leaves the passports and insurance certificate. I have heard nothing to suggest that the latter is a requirement for a UK yacht, but am happy to be proven wrong.

If you have non-EC nationals on board (I often do) a valid visa may be required, and in theory you should report to immigration on arrival. In practise I don't bother - just stick up a Q flag instead, and the immigration services of France Germany and Netherlands have never had the slightest objection to our laziness when they have bothered to search us out - provided the visas are valid, of course.

 

[Guest]

In my book "minimum" is whatever the authorities can demand that you show them PLUS whatever will make my life easier - so I stand by my original list.

In particular I like the "Proof of vessel ownership and proof of VAT paid status are only required to the same extent that they are in the UK". I couldn't agree more.

Try getting your boat out of the UK if HM Customs and Excise decide that they want you to prove ownership and that VAT has been paid.

Now translate that to a week in Dieppe. How will you spend your holiday?? Frantically telephoning the UK and trying to get "proof of ownership and VAT paid" faxed, posted or emailed to Dieppe!!!!!!!!!

Best regards )

Ian D

 

[Guest]

Agreed that there's no harm at all in carrying these things on board. Your point about having to spend time getting the VAT proof faxed over applies equally whether you're sailing to Dieppe or just Dover. It's a pretty unlikely event, though, in both places.

My general point is that, apart from passports, there's no real difference from cruising in the UK. It's always a good idea to have documentation on board just in case. But there's absolutely no need for example to delay a trip because say a registration certificate hasn't come through.

Apart from passports, the only document that customs/immigration (German) have demanded to see from us is our logbook! One could add that to your list. But I must say that I wouldn't feel particularly afraid of sailing even without an up-to-date logbook.

French officials once demanded to see the safety equipment (compass, chart, flares etc) on my 16' Hobie Cat, but it probably hadn't sunk in that we were a British 'ship'. French boats have certain equipment requirements if they travel beyond specified distances offshore. We had all the equipment (to their surprise) so there was no need to argue.

 

[Peter_the_Grate]

The RYA will sell you a useful book called Foreign Cruising (£5.35, order online at http://www.rya.org.uk/shop/) which details all the documentation that you need.

 

[vyv_cox]

Sorry to differ but received experience is the opposite. Over the past months there have been numerous postings on these boards describing encounters with French officials, either at sea or in port, in which particular attention was paid to VAT status. The magazines have reported high profile cases where owners were fined and boats impounded for minor documentary infringements. I have never been asked to show any of these documents except once, in Belgium. But we continue to carry everything that could possibly be demanded by zealous officialdom. Even on every weekend trip in Holland we carry the lot, just in case.

 

[quaelgeist2]

Fully agree - and would like to add that apparently there is some kind of higher alert right now in the North Sea area.

During 48hrs of sailing in the Netherlands I have been checked twice. Once leaving Den Oever/Ijsselmeer and a day later in the harbour of Texel. Nothing serious, just passports, ownership, VAT. Don't know whether the registration doc helped, since I handed the stuff over in a F5 wind over the rails.

Two years ago, it was definitely the SSR registration card that ansered all questions of the rench officials in Boulogne after seeing passports and VHF certificate.

Interestingly I have never been asked to produce any boating/sailing licence.

chris

 

[Guest]

Interesting: did they actually discuss with you the question of VAT paid status across the rails in the F5, or did you just hand your bundle of docs over? Anyway, that's just as likely to be British Customs stopping and asking you as, say, Dutch. There's no sudden magic when you go abroad.

My point is that for Dieppe there is no extra requirement to the documents over and above those that you would carry in the UK, but make sure you have your passports. In fact you should not even think of sailing along the English south and east coasts without your passports. That is a hot spot for immigration checks. You could very well be called upon to prove that you are an EC citizen while sailing the Solent. How do they know you're not an immigrant just slipped over from France? I do hope that you would not take the risk of being detained in the Solent while you try to arrange someone to bring your passport from home?

Would you sail home waters without a ship's radio licence/vhf operator's certificate on board? You could equally well be checked here as abroad.

Registration certificate as I said is not a legal requirement for a UK yacht either in UK or France Germany/Netherlands, but no harm in having one. We're Part 1 registered anyway so I never get the chance to argue about it unfortunately - being a lawyer, I enjoy that sort of thing.

A British official might equally ask for proof that you own the boat, such as registration certificate, so although not a legal requirement it is better to carry proof of ownership such as registration (as well as VAT paid status) while cruising in UK waters.

I have had the boat searched for two hours by German Customs/immigration, who got quite excited about it all. As I said, they read my logbook from beginning to end. They never did ask to see registration certificates/VAT status or any of the rest of it. Luckily they didn't spot my spare pare of binoculars, which are Russian military issue... But they never did think to ask whether I owned the boat.

Anyway, there's no real disagreement here. I do carry these things both in home waters and abroad, but there's no need to get worked up about having perfect documentation before going abroad any more than you would if sailing to Brighton. Would YOU risk sailing Portsmouth to Brighton without proof of VAT paid status? Or would you delay your trip?

p.s. I think that carrying a copy of the insurance certificate is a good idea!

 

[robp]

Interesting reading your comments about there being no difference here or France. That makes sense in the context of EU. I bow to your obvious legal knowledge but I have been present whilst a power boat friend was fined FF1000 for not having the original registration document. (He had a photocopy). The douanne quoted the exact article that they were using.

 

[Guest]

Can't claim to have a detailed knowledge of the French regulation in question, but my impression from reading articles and pilot books is that, with regard to registration within the EC, home country rules apply. I'm quite happy to be proven wrong on that point. I seem to remember that that has changed in the last few years - a few years ago it was necessary when travelling to France to have a registration document, which is why the SSR grew up. How long ago was your friend fined?

It is also possible that the French official in question was just not up to speed. That can usually be sorted just by explaining it to them. Usually stops to make them think even if you don't know the regulation to refer to. I'd be surprised to find an official not up to speed on the North coast of France.

The other quite possible alternative is that I've misread the articles and pilot books, and home country rules don't apply within the EC as regards registration. Can anyone confirm?

 

[quaelgeist2]

As far as I know (not a lawyer) there are flag certificates, the closest thing to a registration proof for unregistered boats on the continent, offered for boats going abroad in Germany and the Netherlands. Usual langugae is 'if you intend to go to France...' etc.

Simon, I believe you are right that there should not be a difference in all these things within the EU, but given the subsidiarity agreements, countries may choose different paths to achieve common agreed objectives.

And I personally would not -more than lightly- argue with French authorities or representatives of those, given the rather radical and publicly/politically approved measures they take occasionally. Fines are on the spot and if you can't pay you leave a deposit, e.g. in the form of your car/boat/etc.

cheers
chris

France is great - its the inhabitants that cause the itching...

 

[robp]

Was in 2000 in St Vaast. They were sure of their ground and had the book spread out on the pontoon. What was annoying was that he had a copy which tied up with everything else. So it was clear that he could prove registration. Just that the article said "original". Plus when they were holding his passport, it was the upperhand. I argued the point with them too but they weren't having any.

Is it possible that we are still the odd ones out, in not enforcing registration?

 

[Guest]

As I say, you could be right, though I have a strongish impression from somewhere that home rules on registration apply. I've never had to look into it properly, though, 'cos we're Part 1 registered.

Arguing about such things with the authorities is a little weakness of mine - I love it. But, of course, the secret is to be in the right in the first place. BTW the Russian police must have demanded to see my passport about 40-odd times, and I've always refused as a matter of principle. I know they didn't have the right, and they always backed off when they saw I knew their rules on the matter! One did try to arrest me. I arrested him in return (for assault). Eventually we called it quits, ripped up our respective summonses, and parted friends after some vodka...

 

[Guest]

Er .... Rock .......

as a "new user" you seem to have discovered a subject on which everyone has an opinion.

The general concensus seems to be "take everything up to and including the Mother-in-Law's birth certificate".

Enjoy Dieppe - and mind the ferries.

Best regards )

Ian