Fools and Twats on the water

[Andrew_Fanner]

Re: Fools and Twats on the water- attitude v aptitude perhaps?

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I think the biggest problem is people who do day skipper and then don't sail for a period of time. If you're not out there sailing your skills get rusty, it's the same for everyone but if you've only just learnt the skills you don't have the experience to fall back on.
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Now there is a very sensible remark. Think of the difference between the local lad who has taken a boat out several times a week against the twice a year tourist or the twice a month Birmingham Navy type. Think of the fellow who can make a single shaft drive boat move sideways daily in and out of the fishing berth against the City bonus type who neads bow and stern thrusters, or IPS + joystick, to do the same thing. The latter might also have RYA quals...

I have done courses, got the chitties and enjoyed the work, even proud of it now and again, but they are no substitute for experience and that won't change with any licensing scheme.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Fools and Twats on the water- attitude v aptitude perhaps?

[ QUOTE ]
I used to teach day skipper, and I would somewhat resent the accusation that I passed people as "skipper" who were not capable of skippering a yacht in sheltered waters by day.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I certainly never said that you had done anything of the sort, so please don't feel resentful! What I said (and stand by) is that I have seen people who have gained DS and who are completely unprepared for skippering. One of them could arguably have been a grudging pass when she took the course but the other could not have forgotten so much stuff - he isn't thick and he doesn't seem to have severe metal retardation, he just never made the grade after his one week course. Could be that the lady and the two children got most of the attention, could be he wasn't interested, could be the teaching was bad. What seems clear (to me) is that he, at least, should not have been give a DS pass.

I am sure that it is difficult for instructors. There are commercial issue and don't let's forget that this is a leisure activity, so nobody wants to fail anyone especially after they have been paying you handsomely for staying on your boat for a whole week.

I would suggest that if they are going to use the term 'skipper' that the cert should not be issued without a brief test by another instructor (not commercially associated with the first). Half an hour at the end of a weeks course is all it would take to check that things seemed about right. It could even be done on the phone, come to that. The 'external' examiner would only need to take more time if the candidate seemed very borderline - which, if the teaching instructor had done his job properly, should seldom happen.

But please, don't take these remarks personally. Most of the people in these forums are pretty passionate about sailing or they wouldn't be here....what we have here are the most dedicated, competent, aspiring and conscientious of the group. I am sure you'll agree that there must be some pretty terrible instructing going on somewhere, and that hopeless candidates do get through when they shouldn't?

The danger is that since we call it 'Day Skipper' people get a false sense of confidence in the ability of the holder.

There is one thing worse than a 'Fool and Twat on the water' and that's a 'Fool and Twat' who has been told that he is a good egg and is fit to skipper his boat in the open sea.

 

[oldharry]

Re: Fools and Twats on the water- attitude v aptitude perhaps?

I agree with Lemain: I've got a bit of paper that says I know how to do it. Therefore i am safe.

at sea....?

I used to earn my living full time on the water, but as my experience continues to grow so does the realisation how little I actually know about the sea and its ways.

 

[cagey]

Re: Fools and Twats on the water- attitude v aptitude perhaps?

Totally agree with your comments, all I am suggesting is everyone on the water should be required to demonstrate a minimum knowledge.
Keith

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Fools and Twats on the water- attitude v aptitude perhaps?

[ QUOTE ]
..... all I am suggesting is everyone on the water should be required to demonstrate a minimum knowledge.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about in the water? Should we have swimming tests before we can venture below the high water mark on the beach? The principle is the same.

 

[cagey]

Re: Fools and Twats on the water- attitude v aptitude perhaps?

In the past I have enjoyed and respected your intelligent and funny input, but now your just being silly

 

[Lakesailor]

Re: Fools and Twats on the water- attitude v aptitude perhaps?

Perhaps you are denigrating Lemain's post because you disagree. Can't see the difference really. Why should non-swimmers be allowed in the sea?

On the other hand. Why should you have to demonstrate you can learn a syllabus to be allowed to use a boat?
Does everything in the world have to be regulated?

 

[cagey]

Re: Fools and Twats on the water- attitude v aptitude perhaps?

Same applies: In the past I have enjoyed and respected your intelligent and funny input, (also some very educational links), but now your just being silly.
Totally agree I hate with a passion Licensing and regulation but what brought about my invective was an idiot who drove a chartered boat onto a well charted 100 metre(approx) long sand bar ( discussed on another PBO forum) and then tried to explain his complete incompetance as someone elses fault ( hence term twat). I am not in favour of universal licensing just suggesting perhaps it would be sensible or responsible to show newcomers that there are rules,laws and ways of behaving. Maybe a 1 day intro course to explain to novices what to do and where to find info or training should be available.
Me, I have a 30 years exp dinghies, cats, keel boats,power boats etc. all the RYA Certs ending in YM Prac with Comm End which I am extremely proud to have achieved, but I am humble enough to admit I know sod all, but each time I go out I learn a lot more

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Fools and Twats on the water- attitude v aptitude perhaps?

Let's leave the personal stuff out of this?

[ QUOTE ]
I am not in favour of universal licensing just suggesting perhaps it would be sensible or responsible to show newcomers that there are rules,laws and ways of behaving. Maybe a 1 day intro course to explain to novices what to do and where to find info or training should be available.

[/ QUOTE ]

The point I have been making is that while your suggestion is well-intentioned it might have the opposite effect to the one you are intending. Having 'done' the one day course the candidate feels 'qualified'.

 

[Lizzie_B]

Did you tell them to report their sea school/training instuctor to the RYA. They clearly had not even gone through the syllabus, let alone passed it!

 

[cagey]

Re: Fools and Twats on the water- attitude v aptitude perhaps?

Not personal, just light hearted.
Point I am trying to make is: I am not suggesting that the 1 day course is a qualification just a pointer towards further education and where to access info

 

[Anonymous]

No. It could have ended a good friendship going back over 40 years. I did consider it but decided to let them try to sail the Nauticat between them, with me just watching, available to answer any questions they had, rather than trying to teach them (on that occasion). I think that they saw the holes in their knowledge and experience and I think that they will get further help before going out alone. I suggested that they make contact with an experienced local yachtsman for days out, rather than take further lessons, at least at their present stage.

The benefit of going out with other yachties is that you don't pay for it, so you can get many hours in and it's fun for everyone. Instructors charge and most people can't afford as many hours as they need.