Follow on from Test Sail thread

[markleuty]

Hi

In the Test Sail thread, it is mentioned that by the time you get to be seriously thinking about buying a boat that you should already know the sailing characteristics of that particular boat.

We've had a boat for 5 years and it's the only boat we've ever sailed. We bought it because it was the right length, the right price and in decent condition for it's age.

Now we're thinking of buying a bigger boat. We have seen one that we like, but know nothing about the sailing characteristics. How on earth (or I suppose, sea) are we supposed to find out.

Comments would be welcome.

Mark

 

[Guest]

Socialise, enquire, offer to crew ...

 

[Thistle]

Seek the collective wisdom of this forum?

And why not tell the seller what you've told us above? They are likely to understand the situation and therefore look favourably on the idea of a test sail if it can be arranged without too much inconvenience. Particularly at a time when, by all reports, the boat market is suffering a bit, a test sail may make the difference, for the seller, between a sale and being stuck for quite a while with a boat they don't want or can't afford. If it's a brokerage and they refuse, ask them to put the question to the owner. I don't think a deposit - which would presumably be lost if you don't go ahead with the purchase - is a good idea but an offer to pay for the actual costs of any test would seem fair.

 

[martinb]

It is difficult, the three yachts I have bought were all lying ashore when I bought them so I had to research, including asking on here, and luckily have not had any suprises when I finaly got to sail the boats, with the exception of my current boat which has exceeded my expectations.

I guess that a forum like this offers the best resource, as there is probably someone on here that has a boat like the one you are interested in and could offer you advice and a sail.

Good luck

Martin

 

[flyingscampi]

There is a reprints section on this very site

 

[FullCircle]

[ QUOTE ]
Seek the collective wisdom of this forum?

[/ QUOTE ]


Hmm. If you ask about boat X, then 10 boat X owners will all tell you how marvellous they are.
You will also get loads of spurious advice on keel sections, weight, rig setup. All tosh.
If the boat you are looking at is a well respected brand, then it will probably be OK.
If you look at a one off you have to ask why there arent more of them, similar with home builds. Some are good, but look carefully.

Then look at the forum recommendations for boats A to Z (including X above). You will find a huge spread of length and budget, almost wholly unrelated to your original question.

You will glean a lot of good info, and this is the font of all knowledge, but you have to sort the sheet from the gaff.

 

[Pincoya]

How will you be able to discover the sailing characteristics on a test sail?

Maybe, if you are lucky, you will get out into open water in a F4-5 but that is not likely. More likely is a quick trip in decent conditions. Put the sails up, yes they work, take em down. Engine sounds OK, bilges are not filling, steering feels OK, etc etc. Most boats will perform reasonably well in these circumstances and only the real pigs will show that they are bad to sail.

None of this will tell you what you really want to know and that is how does she sail for long periods of time in changing conditions with me in control.

Buying involves doing your own homework on the make/model of boat, finding a good example at the right price and making sure that she is basically sound. That is where the test sail comes in, together with a survey.

Paul

 

[PaulR]

tricky isn't it - we are now on our 6th yacht and test sailed only one of them and that was the only one we had sailed the design of before buying - we relied heavily on boat test reviews and also took an interest in handicap results and results of cruising racing events like the round the island race so we could get an idea of how well (alright fast) they each sailed - glad to say been happy each time - might also suggest if you are after a specific design no harm in posting here and asking if any current owner might be willing to host a sail so you can get a sail on the design without the added issues re a formal "test sail" situation - good luck

 

[markleuty]

Hmm. If you ask about boat X, then 10 boat X owners will all tell you how marvellous they are.


[/ QUOTE ]

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif That's why I specifically left out what sort of boat I was thinking of buying from my original question!

Thanks for the replies.

Mark

 

[john_morris_uk]

[ QUOTE ]
We have seen one that we like, but know nothing about the sailing characteristics. How on earth (or I suppose, sea) are we supposed to find out.

[/ QUOTE ] The easy answer is to use the reprint service of the magazine listings. Be aware that magazines tend not to be overcritical of boats that they test. Read a few tests and you can start to read between the lines of what is said. Sometimes its better to look at what is not said rather than what is said!

Another way is to say what sort of a boat it is and ask peoples opinions on here. See what people say and take lots of it with a large pinch of salt.

Alternatively some of us have the last few years of PBO's and YM's and we 'might' have a copy of the relevant boat test.

PS this is not an advert that says I'm going to copy any boat test for anyone who asks. But If I have an idle two minutes, I might look it up and relay some salient points...

Why can't you say what sort of boat it is you are looking at on these forums anyway?

 

[markleuty]

Name that boat!

OK! Why not?

We're looking at a Hunter Legend 42 Passage Centre Cockpit.

If anyone has any comments it would be nice to hear them.

Many Thanks.

Mark

 

[john_morris_uk]

Re: Name that boat!

Well I can find boat reports for a Legend 40.5, 41, 420, and a 426DS Is it any of these? Is it similar to any of these do you know?

 

[markleuty]

Re: Name that boat!

The 420 is I think the later version of the 42CC.

I notice you're in Plymouth, this is where the aforementioned 42 CC is (look it up on YachtWorld). Perhaps you could tyre kick a test sail for me (I'm in Surrey) and let me know /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

We got a couple of boat tests from the Legend stand at LIBS today which made interesting reading (one for the 45CC and one for a 41) so we're sort of reading between the lines.

The lady on the stand (who used to sell Beneteaus) said it wouldn't perform like our First 30E, but we're rubbish sailors and everyone always overtakes us!

I'm just looking for a decent bed, a shower and a table that I can put my laptop on and do a bit of work. If she makes way under sail, that's a bonus!

Mark

 

[Tranona]

Re: Name that boat!

Then, surely a test sail is irrelevant!

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: Name that boat!

The Twister Class Association is sometimes asked by prospective purchasers if someone could offer them a test sail. We always try and help. Perhaps other classes and makes provide similar support?

 

[john_morris_uk]

Re: Name that boat!

[ QUOTE ]
The 420 is I think the later version of the 42CC.

I notice you're in Plymouth, this is where the aforementioned 42 CC is (look it up on YachtWorld). Perhaps you could tyre kick a test sail for me (I'm in Surrey) and let me know /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

We got a couple of boat tests from the Legend stand at LIBS today which made interesting reading (one for the 45CC and one for a 41) so we're sort of reading between the lines.

The lady on the stand (who used to sell Beneteaus) said it wouldn't perform like our First 30E, but we're rubbish sailors and everyone always overtakes us!

I'm just looking for a decent bed, a shower and a table that I can put my laptop on and do a bit of work. If she makes way under sail, that's a bonus!

Mark

[/ QUOTE ]Mark,

Not sure that my sailing the boat - even if I had the time (and cheek?) to pretend that I was interested enough in buying it to take it out for a sail would help you make up our mind about whether its sailing qualities would suit your sort of sailing.

The only reference to Legend 420 in the boat reviews available in back issues of YM PBO etc is in Jan 99. I looked it up and its only a reference to the boat being shown at the boat show. It says that the boat is 'imposing' and is equiped with everything down to a freezer and microwave. Its a backstayless rig and has a cockpit arch and mast struts. (It was priced at £135.713 in 99 by the way).

Legends sail - but not very well. You won't win many races. They are very comfortable to live aboard in reasonably benign conditions. The one you are looking at is shallow draft an won't sail particularly well to windward.

However none of this might be relevant. I think that the biggest thing that you might notice moving up from a 30 footer is that everything is much bigger. I don't mean to be stating the obvious, but handling under power and coming alongside needs a bit more skill and thought. You can't just shove the thing off with a push in the way that you can with a smaller boat.

Despite this you will notice an improvement in speed on a reach (or under power) just through having extra waterline length.

Hope this all helps.