Flying the Scottish red ensign

[JumbleDuck]

There is no need to enquire as to why somebody should be classified as a suspected idiot: it is enough to know that they are and be prepared to take evasive action as necessary.

Ah, the "idiot" business again. How terribly, terribly upsetting. I am cut to the quick. Please, someone, pass me a handkerchief.

 

[laika]

What flag I fly is none of your concern, and I find the fact that it apparently raises your blood pressure rather strange.

You may have noticed that under austerity measures government resources are limited. Do you think that government officials debating then drawing up pointless legislation concerning a flag which you already have no problem in flying whenever and however you like is really a better use of resources than housing or healthcare?

Don't know why people are associating anarchists with sociopaths and they tend to prefer the black flag (or red and black for the anarcho-syndicalists). Except on talk like a pirate day.

And this thread belongs in the lounge.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The last 16 odd years of floating around quite a large number of places has shown me just how much a Brit thing it is. The vast majority of others seem to have far more national pride and wear their nations flag without complaint.

The first issue here is that different people in the UK have different notions about what their nation is. The second and bigger issue is that there are some people who simply cannot cope with this diversity. Why do some people (English and Scottish) feel so terribly, terribly threatened by Scots who identify as Scottish? Why do some people (English and Scottish) feel so terribly, terribly threatened by Scots who identify as British?

Sadly there are some people who are so convinced of their own infallibility, or perhaps so insecure in their own opinions, that they simply cannot tolerate the existence of any other views. It's nothing to do with national identity, really.

 

[JumbleDuck]

And this thread belongs in the lounge.

Sweeping out a stable to tidy it is easy, but you end up with the smelly stuff outside. The moderators have been tidying up the Lounge recently, and it seems that a few of the regulars there are bringing their debating styles and beliefs to the more civilised parts of the forums, which is a shame.

The ensign side of this thread is pretty solidly scuttlebutt.

 

[capnsensible]

Away from the UK its all to do with national Identity. At least it has been from my observations over the last 16 years.

Happy for you to show me otherwise, of course.

 

[BruceDanforth]

Ah, the "idiot" business again. How terribly, terribly upsetting. I am cut to the quick. Please, someone, pass me a handkerchief.

Your idiocy appears as a continuum. There is no again.

Your novelty ensign forewarns me that you may not be in control of your vessel as you seek third party help for your broken finger nail.

 

[claymore]

Splendid! First chuckle in 50 posts.

Don't encourage him.

 

[AuntyRinum]

There you go again.

I am not ignorant, in any sense of the word, on this matter.

I fly a different flag to you. Get over it, or look the other way when I sail past you.

- W

Lots of boats fly a different flag to me, most of them correctly, and I am always pleased to see the many variations. I promise that when you sail past me I will avoid you as if you were the plague.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Away from the UK its all to do with national Identity. At least it has been from my observations over the last 16 years.

That's quite possibly the case, but it's complicated by the fact that "national identity" isn't an easy concept in Scotland. "English" and "British" are so often treated as synonymous that many English people don't realise that "Scottish" and "British" are not.

I know people who are both nationalist (they believe Scotland to be a nation and identify as Scottish) and unionist (they believe that the best form of governance for Scotland is continued union with rUK). I would never assume that someone flying the Scottish merchant flag is a supporter of independence and I would never assume that someone flying the UK red ensign is a supporter of union.

Neither would I care. It's just a flag..

 

[JumbleDuck]

Lots of boats fly a different flag to me, most of them correctly, and I am always pleased to see the many variations. I promise that when you sail past me I will avoid you as if you were the plague.

Perhaps if you worried more about sail trim and less about other people's flags, you'd be sailing past him.

 

[AuntyRinum]

On what basis do you assume that people who fly the Scottish merchant flag are ignorant?

They either don't understand the rules and the reasons for them, or they have contempt for the national maritime ensign and what it represents. Either way, it's ignorance.

 

[Malo37]

There is no such thing. You might just as well hoist a pair of old underpants.

 

[capnsensible]

That's quite possibly the case, but it's complicated by the fact that "national identity" isn't an easy concept in Scotland. "English" and "British" are so often treated as synonymous that many English people don't realise that "Scottish" and "British" are not.

I know people who are both nationalist (they believe Scotland to be a nation and identify as Scottish) and unionist (they believe that the best form of governance for Scotland is continued union with rUK). I would never assume that someone flying the Scottish merchant flag is a supporter of independence and I would never assume that someone flying the UK red ensign is a supporter of union.

Neither would I care. It's just a flag..

Good luck with all that when you are at a non English speaking Customs and Immigration office!

:encouragement:

As I said, enjoy your ability to be as daft as you like, I would be! Actually, on reflection, I once took a yacht to Barfleur. It was called Seraph, named after a WW2 submarine. We had a replica of its traditional skull and crossbones flag flown on return from patrol. I flew it there and was moaned at by a nearby German yacht. Im afraid my crew were a bit rude.......

 

[AuntyRinum]

....Don't know why people are associating anarchists with sociopaths and they tend to prefer the black flag (or red and black for the anarcho-syndicalists). Except on talk like a pirate day.

And this thread belongs in the lounge.

You are right that the anarchist flag is black, but if they were true anarchists they would all have different flags, wouldn't they? The same anarchy being promoted in this thread.
I actually don't care what flags people fly because they are sending a signal about their level of competence and personality, but I think that, if you are going to play the flag game, you should play it properly, like everything else in life.
I will always object though when people spurn our flags and then offer what they think are sensible reasons for doing so.

 

[Aja]

.
Can't help but notice on the West Coast of Scotland this year more and more boats are flying the Scottish red ensign.
- W

In answer to your question. No. Can't say I have. I have seen plenty of boats flying the Saltire from the correct position and the Red (or Blue where appropriate) Ensign at the stern.

As for the politics. Lounge.

Regards

Donald

 

[JumbleDuck]

They either don't understand the rules and the reasons for them, or they have contempt for the national maritime ensign and what it represents. Either way, it's ignorance.

Hmm. Do you you what the rules are about ensign use for recreational craft in home waters?

 

[JumbleDuck]

There is no such thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Ensign#Scotland_.28Pre-1707.29

You might just as well hoist a pair of old underpants.

There is nothing to stop you doing that if you wish, provided you don't do it when an ensign is mandatory.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Good luck with all that when you are at a non English speaking Customs and Immigration office!

Both I and Webcraft have said that we have UK red ensigns for use in such situations.

 

[AuntyRinum]

Hmm. Do you you what the rules are about ensign use for recreational craft in home waters?

I do.
On your bike matie, I've had enough of your trolling. This is a public forum, and my only interest in answering you at all is to put correct information on here for anyone new to boating who may read your nonsense. I've done that.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I actually don't care what flags people fly because they are sending a signal about their level of competence and personality

What signal about level of competence and personality does a defaced blue ensign send you?

I think that, if you are going to play the flag game, you should play it properly, like everything else in life.

As you say, it's a game (legal obligations is some situations apart). You play by whatever set of rules you like, I'll play by whatever set of rules I like and there is no need for any grouchiness on either side. Do rugby players gripe at tennis players for using a racquet to hit the ball?

I spent a very pleasant evening on another boat a couple of weeks ago. At 9pm the owner jumped up (he had just realised the time) and went on deck to lower his defaced blue ensign. It's not something I would do myself, but I didn't think it odd, silly or stupid. If that's how he and his club do things, good on them.

I will always object though when people spurn our flags and then offer what they think are sensible reasons for doing so.

What happened to "I actually don't care what flags people fly"? You can object till you're red (plain or defaced) in the face. It's none of your business, just as your choice of flag is none of my business.