Fly the Union Jack

[awol]

An' I thought only Northern Ireland Unionists, Glasgow Rangers Supporters, and the remnants of the Tory party flew the red,white and blue yin.

...... Oh, and Brenda's house when she's no at home just in case somebody dies.

 

[eidiohir]

You could register the boat in Bermuda then you could fly a sort of union jack.

 

[Ubergeekian]

If you're going to be like that then make it five. But I'm afraid that unless it's red, white or blue, with a union jack in the corner it's no more legal than just flying the Union Jack.

Except that there is, as I understand it, a specific rule against flying the union jack, whereas there is nothing either way about the Scottish (or any other non red, white or blue) ensign.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

I support the campaign to fly the union flag for the same reason as you; when abroad the great majority cannot understand why a British yacht is not flying a union jack.

I think we have to be honest. When we do try and explain the system you sense the disbelief that a modern society still tolerates such a system.

Yes. They are laughing at us !

It does explain though why we have the best underclass in Europe.

Nothing like a good old Ensign topic on the go !

 

[Humblebee]

A:

Merchant Shipping Act 1995 (c. 21)

......"

(1) The flag which every British ship is entitled to fly is the red ensign (without any defacement or modification) and, subject to subsections (2) and (3) below, no other colours.

I interpret this differently, Temptress. The Act gives an entitlement, not an obligation. In effect it says a british ship is entitled to show a red ensign and has no entitlement to any other flag. That is not the same as saying no other flag may be shown. Think of it as a privilege, one which lets a ship clearly and unambiguously identify its nationality.

The offence created is, it seems, for a ship of another nationality to fly the red ensign, which would amount to pretending to be British. By contrast, it is not, I think, an offence for a foreign ship to fly a Union Jack (or Flag) as this is not protected by the same entitlement.

Can anyone really envisage a prosecution for flying a Union Flag (or Jack) on a private yacht?

 

[Ubergeekian]

I disagree. I think the RYA invented the idea that there were a plethora of 'wrong' ways to go sailing. When I started to sail you went out and did what worked. You certainly didn't look about to see what other people were doing wrong. If anything you looked about for best practice to move yourself up to the front of the fleet not to find a excuse to whine about others.

I don't think the RYA can be blamed for this. Flag etiquette for leisure craft is basically a game invented by yacht clubs in the twenties and thirties partly because yacht clubs are full of people who like rules and hierarchies and partly because it was a very good way of keeping the oiks in their places.

This sort of fascination with rules is a terribly middle class one. The upper and lower classes don't give a toss - it's just the dreadfully uncertain aspirants who need written regulations to know if they are doing it right. It's a cargo cult of social advancement: fly the right flags, perform the right rituals and receive status from the gods.

The rules of flag etiquette are about as relevant to the outside world as the rules of dungeons and dragons. I have nothing against people who care desperately whether their senior house flag is in the right place relative to their burgee and I have nothing against people who care desperately whether a half-orc can use magic to deflect a mage with a sword. The difference is that the D&D gang don't keep telling me that I ought to be playing their game.

 

[Ubergeekian]

More lies Toad.

My camera says the time between the first and last photo was 7.15 minutes and were posted on Scuttlebutt in 2008.

What about the ones you posted on 30th November 2009?

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2329010&postcount=23

 

[Ubergeekian]

Can anyone really envisage a prosecution for flying a Union Flag (or Jack) on a private yacht?

I vaguely remember an attempt to prosecute a narrowboat owner for flying a union jack. As I recall, incredulous laughter meant that it didn't get as far as a conviction.

 

[Sybarite]

I believe it is only the vessel on which the Queen is that wears the Union Flag.

Personally I believe the world would be a much better place if all flags were outlawed.

John

 

[mcframe]

You could register the boat in Bermuda then you could fly a sort of union jack.

Hawaii is better :->

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

I vaguely remember an attempt to prosecute a narrowboat owner for flying a union jack. As I recall, incredulous laughter meant that it didn't get as far as a conviction.

Although I presume they still got him on the charge of "being a folk singing beardie git driving a 5h1tty rusty mobo with painted watering cans." 10 years hard labour at least. Plus 5 years for 'conspiracy to wear a baggy jumper and drink Pedegree'.

 

[fastjedi]

I'm on my seventh season of boat ownership and have always found something better to spend £30 on .... like a bit of string to hold the sail up or a safety line to keep the crew safe.

It's bugging me now because I have just aquired a rather nice mahogany stick. I believe fits in a hole at the back of the boat? I'm thinking of buying a red ensign tea towel..... Useful to dry up after supper, and with its own special place to dry out.

If a Union Jack tea towel is cheaper you can count me in. ... Oh! Wait and minute, I don't want to be put in prison for drying an offensive tea towel!

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Personally I believe the world would be a much better place if all flags were outlawed.

Ireland would be.

 

[dunedin]

I think the best reason not to fly the union jack is because the fact that Britain has not one, but three ensigns reflects a fantastic and glorious history in seafaring achievement and dominance. Personally I'm more than happy not being allowed to fly the Union Jack because that is not the flag that flew when we won Trafalgar, or the Battle of the Atlantic or when RKJ did his circumnavigation etc.

On the contrary I support the motion to fly Union Flag, and for a specific reason .....

I propose we all remove the ensigns and replace with Union Flags as a mark of protest over the inactivity of our naval ships present when the Chandlers were abducted, and as visible and silent support for the Chandler's cause, until such time as they are released safely. Like a yellow ribbon or poppy, this would be a much more worthwhile use for our ensign staffs.

 

[NorthUp]

You must become hysterical every time you see a car doing 80mph on the motorway.

Lighten up, all of you!

No motorways up here!


Ubergeekian Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthUp
No, you may not, any more than you can fly a French flag there, just because you like the look of it.

That's not quite true. he can't fly a French flag because that would indicate the wrong nationality. He can't fly a union jack (dammit) only because there is a specific provision against that one national flag.

Err, that whot I said..."No, you may not..."

I knew this one would would grow legs, for what its worth I do not fly any flag- not even an A flag anymore!

 

[mcframe]

Except that there is, as I understand it, a specific rule against flying the union jack, whereas there is nothing either way about the Scottish (or any other non red, white or blue) ensign.

That's /almost/ my reading - Union Flag falls foul of "any colours usually worn by Her Majesty’s ships or resembling those of Her Majesty,"

MSA95 says:
(2) British Ships are *entitled* to fly Red Ensign (& no other "British flags")
(4) *Other* "distinctive national colours" (inc blue & white) are prohibited (except pilot jack)

If a Scot's ensign were to be ruled "distinctive national colours", then that would open up a whole different can of worms

I assume you have a Red ensign on board for (5) Duty to show British flag, don't you?

 

[Resolution]

"Flag etiquette for leisure craft is basically a game invented by yacht clubs in the twenties and thirties "

I don't think that is quite right. My extremely ancient yacht club is festooned with equally ancient pictures and paintings of members racing their rather large yachts and flying all sorts of burgees and battleflags. Most of this was in the 18th and19th centuries.
Perhaps by the 20th century, what with the empire having gone, all that was left was petty etiquette on pi**ling little sailing boats.

 

[cgull]

Bit like flying a Red , or for that matter a blue or White Ensign from ones flagpole at home.

Absolutely no point, only shows ignorance!

 

[Major Catastrophe]

What about the ones you posted on 30th November 2009?

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2329010&postcount=23

Yes, it was that repost that Toad was referring to.

FYI I just reposted an old photo on MOBO of Kawasaki shagging his engine.

 

[Slowtack]

First, fly the correct ensign. Second, purchase a pair of Union Flag pattern shorts, immerse them in water and dry them by hanging them horizontally from the backstay.