Fishing boats near Gunfleet Sand

[dolabriform]

Hi all

We were coming up from Ramsgate overnight, approaching the top of Gunfleet from Kings channel and turned towards Medusa PHB around 0100. We saw a single white light moving quickly from Port to Starboard quite a way off, then suddenly stop. Looking through the Binos, we couldn't make out any shapes, so decided to keep an eye on it.

All of a sudden the white light starts heading towards us, still trying to work out what it is, and then wham, all it's lights go on and it's a small trawler, and we can see a single person on board facing towards the stern of the vessel sorting out whatever, the net over the back, and they are about 150m away off our starboard beam. No AIS, not appearing to be looking out, and we are in a collision situation.

Crew start shining torches at the sailis and at the skipper to try and grab their attention, we are doing 7 knots close hauled on port tack and I'm running out of options. Luckily the torch light grabbed their attention and they turned their floodlights on and spotted us at the last minute. They gave a single hoot ( I only heard one ) and turned to starboard to go behind us. I felt like they crossed behind us 50m off.

Shortly after we see all the lights go off again as it headed towards Gunfleet sands, and we then saw another one doing the same, ie lights on / off etc.

As there was no AIS coming from them, ( we were transmitting btw ), there was no way to identify them, couldn't see any marks on the vessel through the Binos.

I keep asking myself "what could I have done differently?", but replaying the situation in my head I'm at a loss. Tacking was out of the question as it would put us on the same course of them. Bearing away and heading back the way we came crossed my mind, but that would initially turn us towards them and I couldn't see how wide the net was. I didn't think about reaching for the flares, which in hindsight might have been a very good idea!

Next time we are out at night I intend to make sure I've got a horn in the cockpit in addition to the powerful torch, and a white flare close at hand.

What would you have done?

 

[oilybilge]

Yeah, I've had the same problem with fishing boats outside Harwich, albeit in broad daylight. They come charging towards you when you're sailing, they're not trawling or constrained by depth, and you have no way of knowing whether they haven't seen you, or whether they have and are just being hairy-ankled a***holes. I get ready with my airhorn, though I've not used it in anger yet.

 

[Bouba]

Yeah, I've had the same problem with fishing boats outside Harwich, albeit in broad daylight. They come charging towards you when you're sailing, they're not trawling or constrained by depth, and you have no way of knowing whether they haven't seen you, or whether they have and are just being hairy-ankled a***holes. I get ready with my airhorn, though I've not used it in anger yet.

If you use a horn...make sure you use the correct code...otherwise, in the event of an incident, they could claim that you were indicating your intention to navigate...and not just angrily blasting it like in a car

 

[MikeBz]

Had a similar situation with one off Bawdsey in broad daylight earlier this year - steaming directly towards us at some speed, the speed differential meant that it really didn’t make much difference what I did. When about 30m away he altered course to pass close astern but it was very disconcerting not knowing whether he had seen us or not. Make your intentions known clearly and early is what I always strive to do.

 

[dolabriform]

If you use a horn...make sure you use the correct code...otherwise, in the event of an incident, they could claim that you were indicating your intention to navigate...and not just angrily blasting it like in a car

5 blasts ... commonly known as WTF ARE YOU DOING

 

[dunedin]

I keep asking myself "what could I have done differently?",

Perhaps tried calling them on VHF 16 afterwards - if no name calling “fishing vessel in position x proceeding without lights and no lookout”. Won’t get a reply but warns others in the area - and will be noted by the Coastguard, and if happens regularly they might take an interest.
I have called by name a fishing boat that we had to take major diversion for as it passed at 10 knots heading straight for harbour, irrespective of all around (and of course fishing day signals welded on permanently).

 

[shanemax]

They don't like in their words (as I was told this by the wife of a fishing boat skiper at A and E) snotty nosed yachties. We were stuck in the A and E at a hospital for 6 hours so people started talking. This fact came to light.
I dare say they do it on purpose.

 

[oldgit]

"They" are earning a living and not out there by choice at some ungodly hour.
On the other hand "we" are voluntarily engaged in a pleasant pastime , its a hobby and a night passage is a personal choice.

 

[Bouba]

It’s no different to commercial drivers on the road..but if they navigating without lights, without a helmsman, without a lookout…then report them

 

[dolabriform]

"They" are earning a living and not out there by choice at some ungodly hour.
On the other hand "we" are voluntarily engaged in a pleasant pastime , its a hobby and a night passage is a personal choice.

I don't have an issue with that at all, and I totally agree that it's our choice.

However, going 'dark' , no AIS, then suddenly switching on lights and heading off without a lookout does seem a little irresponsible.

To quote the regs:
"Automatic Identification Systems (AIS) for Fishing Vessels

All fishing vessels of 15m length overall must fit AIS which shall meet IMO performance standards (Class A)."

 

[dankilb]

Maybe they’re fishing for bales of Columbian finest?! We were told to ‘look out…’!

 

[dolabriform]

Maybe they’re fishing for bales of Columbian finest?! We were told to ‘look out…’!

That hadn't even crossed my mind, but would explain the behaviour !

 

[Daydream believer]

"They" are earning a living and not out there by choice at some ungodly hour.
On the other hand "we" are voluntarily engaged in a pleasant pastime , its a hobby and a night passage is a personal choice.

What is the point that you are making?
They are out there by choice. They chose the profession. Many jobs have their disadvantages. Nothing to stop them going to pick asparagus tips in Norfolk instead.
In a similar vein
Delivery drivers are working in their white vans to deliver goods. Tourists are driving their cars to view the countryside, or whatever. Does that mean that the delivery driver is entitled to drive the tourist car off the road ?

 

[oldgit]

What is the point that you are making?

Asparagus season which generally runs from the beginning of May until the end of June.
Five Ways Fruit Farm. Heath Rd, Stanway, Colchester, Essex, CO3 0QR, United Kingdom
"The season is from early April to nearly the end of June and once the season gets underway we cut every morning from around 6am to midday"

Any suggestions as to what the fishermen do for the other 9 months of the year ? and of course after taking back control of our fisheries, we always have the option to import more fish from across La Manche to make up the shortfall.

 

[oilybilge]

I've read that the big cockle dredgers in the Thames Estuary turn off their AIS and nav lights so the others can't follow them. Which is terrifying. I wonder if night-time trawlers do the same.

 

[Slowboat35]

To quote the regs:
"Automatic Identification Systems (AIS) for Fishing Vessels

All fishing vessels of 15m length overall must fit AIS which shall meet IMO performance standards (Class A)."

If that is indeed a verbatim quote (and I have no reason to suspect it isn't) then there is no compulsion to actually use the AIS, merely to have one fitted...
Are fishermen perhaps so suspicious of anyone 'poaching' on their favoured patch that they don't use AIS simply so their competitors don't know where they are or what they're doing?

 

[dolabriform]

If that is indeed a verbatim quote (and I have no reason to suspect it isn't) then there is no compulsion to actually use the AIS, merely to have one fitted...
Are fishermen perhaps so suspicious of anyone 'poaching' on their favoured patch that they don't use AIS simply so their competitors don't know where they are or what they're doing?

That's the reason excuse I've heard so many times.

Fishing vessels must use AIS - don’t risk a collision

Fishing vessel health and safety.

"AIS shall remain on and operational at all times and may only be switched off where the skipper considers this necessary in the interests of the safety and security of the vessel. It is an offence to switch off AIS unless the safety and security of the vessel would be affected."

 

[Supine Being]

If that is indeed a verbatim quote (and I have no reason to suspect it isn't) then there is no compulsion to actually use the AIS, merely to have one fitted...
Are fishermen perhaps so suspicious of anyone 'poaching' on their favoured patch that they don't use AIS simply so their competitors don't know where they are or what they're doing?

Maybe they don't like competition and prefer to stay dark, but COLREGS doesn't make any allowance for that and quite rightly. The OP implies that the fishing vessel was making way with, apparently, an all-round white as the only nav light in use. AIS would be nice, but correct use of navigation lights at night is a basic requirement. Add failing to keep a lookout to the list and it wouldn't look good at all if the fishing vessel was involved in an incident.

 

[Daydream believer]

Asparagus season which generally runs from the beginning of May until the end of June.
Five Ways Fruit Farm. Heath Rd, Stanway, Colchester, Essex, CO3 0QR, United Kingdom
"The season is from early April to nearly the end of June and once the season gets underway we cut every morning from around 6am to midday"

Any suggestions as to what the fishermen do for the other 9 months of the year ? and of course after taking back control of our fisheries, we always have the option to import more fish from across La Manche to make up the shortfall.

Better still. They get the afternoon off.
Then there is always brussel sprouts
I like a few brussels at Xmas

 

[Biggles Wader]

Hi all

We were coming up from Ramsgate overnight, approaching the top of Gunfleet from Kings channel and turned towards Medusa PHB around 0100. We saw a single white light moving quickly from Port to Starboard quite a way off, then suddenly stop. Looking through the Binos, we couldn't make out any shapes, so decided to keep an eye on it.

All of a sudden the white light starts heading towards us, still trying to work out what it is, and then wham, all it's lights go on and it's a small trawler, and we can see a single person on board facing towards the stern of the vessel sorting out whatever, the net over the back, and they are about 150m away off our starboard beam. No AIS, not appearing to be looking out, and we are in a collision situation.

Crew start shining torches at the sailis and at the skipper to try and grab their attention, we are doing 7 knots close hauled on port tack and I'm running out of options. Luckily the torch light grabbed their attention and they turned their floodlights on and spotted us at the last minute. They gave a single hoot ( I only heard one ) and turned to starboard to go behind us. I felt like they crossed behind us 50m off.

Shortly after we see all the lights go off again as it headed towards Gunfleet sands, and we then saw another one doing the same, ie lights on / off etc.

As there was no AIS coming from them, ( we were transmitting btw ), there was no way to identify them, couldn't see any marks on the vessel through the Binos.

I keep asking myself "what could I have done differently?", but replaying the situation in my head I'm at a loss. Tacking was out of the question as it would put us on the same course of them. Bearing away and heading back the way we came crossed my mind, but that would initially turn us towards them and I couldn't see how wide the net was. I didn't think about reaching for the flares, which in hindsight might have been a very good idea!

Next time we are out at night I intend to make sure I've got a horn in the cockpit in addition to the powerful torch, and a white flare close at hand.

What would you have done?

Not a lot more you could do but I would report the event to the Coastguard with a slight hint that there might have been nefarious activity so they take it seriously. They will probably not investigate but they might notify a few people to ensure the practice stops.