dunedin
Well-known member
Personally I don’t count answering calls in a call centre the same as doing an actual rescue
Fishing boat wreck off St Andrews Scotland
- Thread starter kippers26
- Start date
Plum
Well-known member
Not true.
Last edited:
Sandy
Well-known member
I do, ex-Mountain Rescue Team member here, everybody who helps, be that taking a call, making the tea, walks down the cliff guiding the stretcher, renders first aid, does the radio relay on the mountain on the other side of the valley (because you could not get a direct VHF signal), hauls the stretcher for six hours, liaises with the helicopter crew, the ambulance crew and medical staff, who keeps the pub open to well past closing time (yes that has happened), and runs the bath so you can soak your
You are just looking at a very, very small part of any rescue.
*This list is not exhaustive although I was aften both physically and mentally exhausted after a rescue.
NormanS
Well-known member
If you are interested, I recommend checking page 4 in the "Courier" newspaper of Friday December 6th, where there is a first person report by one of the actual rescuers. It is quite detailed and explicit.
boomerangben
Well-known member
To echo Sandy’s thoughts….
Perhaps you should try and arrange a visit to your local CG Operations Centre. If you think there is some one (or group of) CG Officers whose only job is waiting by a red phone with 999 written on it, you would be mistaken. Who calls out the RNLI/Helicopter/CRT/MOD etc? liaises with the police/ambulance/fireservice/ARCC/foreign CG? keeps coms open to first informant, vessel skipper etc, coordinates the rescue effort of multiple assets from multiple organisations including untrained (as far as SAR goes) members of the seagoing community, professional and recreational? And manages to reassure (and locate) a distraught child whose adult supervisor has had a heart attack in the middle of no where? Who also organises the appropriate reception of casualties and rescuers, organises the manning of helicopter landing sites etc etc. Who gets to decide when multiple incidents are on going which assets are allocated to which incident and which incident takes priority. All this while relying solely on what you are being told by phone/radio/text with no live video, little or no local knowledge trying to second guess your next action whilst rescues are being effected preventing those on scene actually being able to pass on updates. OK, being in the operations centre is not the same as wading into surf to get someone out of danger, but they might well be asking someone to put themselves at danger in executing a rescue. Waiting to hear the outcome when you’ve asked someone to put themselves at risk ain’t much fun. I personally think it might be easier at times being on the front line than in the operations room.
Plum
Well-known member
Well said.
Juan Twothree
Well-known member
They are employed by Bristows.
Juan Twothree
Well-known member
That's not correct.
smert
Active member
Not all of them. The paramedic who was winched down to me in the Solent was an employee of the Dept of Transport. (His usual patch is NW Wales so was more used to being winched onto a lump of rock than a moving boat!)
penberth3
Well-known member
Absolutely. I was once in a situation where I desperately wanted to get out and get involved, but I was looking after the switchboard. My contribution was sitting on my arse and working the phones, someone had to do it!
Juan Twothree
Well-known member
All of the aircrew that I know are employed directly by Bristows.
They run their own cadet scheme for registered paramedics to become winch crew.
boomerangben
Well-known member
I think he was feeding you a line. They are paid for by the DfT, but not paid by the DfT
smert
Active member
He was an employee of the MCA. He was quite explicit about not being Bristows.
Standrewsharbour
New member
A little bit of context on this situation by someone who has some "insight" potentially.
I'm not saying this was the perfect rescue or here to defend/argue any of the valid points made in this post just to give a little bit of insight.
The day started with the two men on the boat being advised not to leave the harbour due to the conditions at sea, lack of PPE and a main engine out of order so using a small backup outboard that was clearly having issues. As it turned out it was very lucky that a group of friends consisting of 3 very well experienced local fishermen and an off duty firefighter were meeting at the harbour to head into town for a coffee as the events unfolded.
They carried on none the less, as they left the harbour they turned left and immediately fell into trouble as the outboard cut out. They began to get knocked around by the sea, tried putting an anchor down to stop them from getting smashed onto the rocks. They were getting battered (for lack of better words), couldn't get the offboard working and there was only one life jacket aboard along with one of the men on the boat not being able to swim.
They held onto the anchor but eventually the line broke off and the boat began to shift again. They ended up on the rocks and began to take on lots of water / get knocked around.
Emergency services had been called at this time and clearly both men aboard were beginning to panic (no shame in doing so, it was awful conditions out there). They were both clearly freezing and going into shock, the boat was lodged on the rocks taking on water and being knocked around for around 20-25 minutes before the video's start.
The first man to leave the boat did so on his own accord, sitting on the side of the boat and then sliding off the side in a panicked moment. Unfortunately what you are unable to see in the video is the shore line / rocks are very all over the place with steep drops, jagged edges and some fairly awful weather so it would have been very very hazardous to navigate that pathway at the best of times let alone in shock, panic, never been to that area before and been in the freezing water for nearly 30 minutes.
He was urged to wedge himself in the ring as he was hauled up, unfortunately at first he moved too much and slipped out. The ring was sent down again and he was hauled up the wall, again I'm not saying this was perfect practice and there may well have been other ways to go about it but in the heat of the moment, both men in utter panic, clearly going into shock, rough conditions and no equipment this was the solution that came into play.
Thankfully the efforts were successful and the man was rescued.
Onto the second man, who in my opinion had deteriorated physically and mentally majorly at the time of the video starting. He wasn't making much sense when conversing with the men on the harbour wall, clearly freezing and in shock, had very little motor skills left. He was being urged to stay in the boat by everyone on the wall. At this point the first off duty firefighter had called another off duty colleague and he arrived. The coast guard were also here at this point and being urged to jump into action which they just weren't doing, while it is clearly understood that emergency services have certain policies and procedures to follow this clearly wasn't acceptable.
The man on the boat began to deteriorate further and kept shouting about how he wanted to go into the water, after straddling the side of the boat for a good while and being urged to stay in the boat a big enough wave hit the boat and the man was knocked around and ended up with his face/head submerged for a good 20-25 seconds. At this point the life ring was thrown to him and everyone was calling him to grab a hold(as you will hear from the video). The man thankfully raised his head from the water and grabbed a hold, at this point there was nothing to do but try to effect a rescue.
We had been told the helicopter was around 30-35 minutes away, the RNLI couldn't get their small boat in there and the coastguard weren't doing anything so the fishermen and off duty firefighters jumped into action again.
One of the off duty firefighters managed to acquire some line, one of them made the decision to go down and a knot was tied around him while the other off duty firefighter lowered him down, another of the fishermen began to make his way around the rocks. Now while I'm not saying this was the perfect way to do things it took a good while for a experienced fisherman who's picked welks for years (constantly going up and down rocks like that), who hadn't been in the water yet and was a lot younger and able bodied to get along that narrow wall and at one point was submerged above his waist.
Now compare this to the second casualty who had been in the water for nearly 45 minutes, couldn't swim, had been knocked to the head several times, had been underwater, was in total shock and barely conscious. This is why the decision to raise him up as opposed to walk him back was made, it would have put the two rescuers who went into the water at a much much much greater risk if they were to try walk him around by the shore.
A PFD with harness points was acquired and thrown down to the rescuers, the men down in the water got the harness on the man and tied him off, then the hauling of the second man began. It was hashy and rough but it thankfully worked, there was a point where a lot of members of the public were pulling on the line however it was causing too much friction and the mans harness had become wedged. There was attempts to get him loose again but with so many bodies pulling on the line there ended up being a stalling point. As seen in the video the other off duty firefighter shouts at them to ease off and give some slack, the line is loosened and then the man is finally hauled up.
To which the coastguard still didn't have any first aid / casualty care in place.
I apologise for the hashy write up and I am in no way saying this was the perfect / best way to handle the situation however something needed to be done to get those men out the water with limited to no equipment. They were very lucky there were some experienced fishermen, off duty emergency service workers and lots of workers at the harbour for restorations. Just wanted to get some context of the situation out there.
All in all the best was made of a very serious and awful situation. For those who are saying the men seemed relatively safe and calm prior to getting in the water here is a few pictures from before that video took place.
Have blurred out their faces for privacy reasons.
Thanks.
I'm not saying this was the perfect rescue or here to defend/argue any of the valid points made in this post just to give a little bit of insight.
The day started with the two men on the boat being advised not to leave the harbour due to the conditions at sea, lack of PPE and a main engine out of order so using a small backup outboard that was clearly having issues. As it turned out it was very lucky that a group of friends consisting of 3 very well experienced local fishermen and an off duty firefighter were meeting at the harbour to head into town for a coffee as the events unfolded.
They carried on none the less, as they left the harbour they turned left and immediately fell into trouble as the outboard cut out. They began to get knocked around by the sea, tried putting an anchor down to stop them from getting smashed onto the rocks. They were getting battered (for lack of better words), couldn't get the offboard working and there was only one life jacket aboard along with one of the men on the boat not being able to swim.
They held onto the anchor but eventually the line broke off and the boat began to shift again. They ended up on the rocks and began to take on lots of water / get knocked around.
Emergency services had been called at this time and clearly both men aboard were beginning to panic (no shame in doing so, it was awful conditions out there). They were both clearly freezing and going into shock, the boat was lodged on the rocks taking on water and being knocked around for around 20-25 minutes before the video's start.
The first man to leave the boat did so on his own accord, sitting on the side of the boat and then sliding off the side in a panicked moment. Unfortunately what you are unable to see in the video is the shore line / rocks are very all over the place with steep drops, jagged edges and some fairly awful weather so it would have been very very hazardous to navigate that pathway at the best of times let alone in shock, panic, never been to that area before and been in the freezing water for nearly 30 minutes.
He was urged to wedge himself in the ring as he was hauled up, unfortunately at first he moved too much and slipped out. The ring was sent down again and he was hauled up the wall, again I'm not saying this was perfect practice and there may well have been other ways to go about it but in the heat of the moment, both men in utter panic, clearly going into shock, rough conditions and no equipment this was the solution that came into play.
Thankfully the efforts were successful and the man was rescued.
Onto the second man, who in my opinion had deteriorated physically and mentally majorly at the time of the video starting. He wasn't making much sense when conversing with the men on the harbour wall, clearly freezing and in shock, had very little motor skills left. He was being urged to stay in the boat by everyone on the wall. At this point the first off duty firefighter had called another off duty colleague and he arrived. The coast guard were also here at this point and being urged to jump into action which they just weren't doing, while it is clearly understood that emergency services have certain policies and procedures to follow this clearly wasn't acceptable.
The man on the boat began to deteriorate further and kept shouting about how he wanted to go into the water, after straddling the side of the boat for a good while and being urged to stay in the boat a big enough wave hit the boat and the man was knocked around and ended up with his face/head submerged for a good 20-25 seconds. At this point the life ring was thrown to him and everyone was calling him to grab a hold(as you will hear from the video). The man thankfully raised his head from the water and grabbed a hold, at this point there was nothing to do but try to effect a rescue.
We had been told the helicopter was around 30-35 minutes away, the RNLI couldn't get their small boat in there and the coastguard weren't doing anything so the fishermen and off duty firefighters jumped into action again.
One of the off duty firefighters managed to acquire some line, one of them made the decision to go down and a knot was tied around him while the other off duty firefighter lowered him down, another of the fishermen began to make his way around the rocks. Now while I'm not saying this was the perfect way to do things it took a good while for a experienced fisherman who's picked welks for years (constantly going up and down rocks like that), who hadn't been in the water yet and was a lot younger and able bodied to get along that narrow wall and at one point was submerged above his waist.
Now compare this to the second casualty who had been in the water for nearly 45 minutes, couldn't swim, had been knocked to the head several times, had been underwater, was in total shock and barely conscious. This is why the decision to raise him up as opposed to walk him back was made, it would have put the two rescuers who went into the water at a much much much greater risk if they were to try walk him around by the shore.
A PFD with harness points was acquired and thrown down to the rescuers, the men down in the water got the harness on the man and tied him off, then the hauling of the second man began. It was hashy and rough but it thankfully worked, there was a point where a lot of members of the public were pulling on the line however it was causing too much friction and the mans harness had become wedged. There was attempts to get him loose again but with so many bodies pulling on the line there ended up being a stalling point. As seen in the video the other off duty firefighter shouts at them to ease off and give some slack, the line is loosened and then the man is finally hauled up.
To which the coastguard still didn't have any first aid / casualty care in place.
I apologise for the hashy write up and I am in no way saying this was the perfect / best way to handle the situation however something needed to be done to get those men out the water with limited to no equipment. They were very lucky there were some experienced fishermen, off duty emergency service workers and lots of workers at the harbour for restorations. Just wanted to get some context of the situation out there.
All in all the best was made of a very serious and awful situation. For those who are saying the men seemed relatively safe and calm prior to getting in the water here is a few pictures from before that video took place.
Have blurred out their faces for privacy reasons.
Thanks.
Attachments
NormanS
Well-known member
Thank you for your candid account of what actually happened. Are the two men alright after all that? There was a good article in the Courier, and also the video on YouTube, agreeing with your account. Well done to those who actually helped.
Standrewsharbour
New member
As far as i'm aware they are both okay. The first man to come up was taken to hospital and sent home once warmed/calmed. The second man was given some sort of treatments and later self discharged although that's not from any "official" source just local chat etc.
Mark-1
Well-known member
Thanks for taking the trouble to post. Very much appreciated.
Standrewsharbour
New member
Not a problem! Like I said it was more to put out some sort of insight. I don't want people to think we think it was a perfect job or it was best practise! Just had to get on with the situation presented and what we had at hand. With more equipment I'm sure we could have had things go a lot smoother!
dunedin
Well-known member
Thanks to StAndrewsHarbour for the very informative - and scary post.
As somebody who knows St Andrews harbour, please pass on to the rescuers our awe and thanks for their amazing rescue of the two people, at considerable difficulty and risk.
It says a lot if the Broughty Ferry inshore lifeboat couldn’t get in there, as they are not easily put off - but I know these rock ledges are extremely treacherous.
Great job by the locals.
As somebody who knows St Andrews harbour, please pass on to the rescuers our awe and thanks for their amazing rescue of the two people, at considerable difficulty and risk.
It says a lot if the Broughty Ferry inshore lifeboat couldn’t get in there, as they are not easily put off - but I know these rock ledges are extremely treacherous.
Great job by the locals.
Juan Twothree
Well-known member
Thank you for your very comprehensive account of events, and well done to everyone who carried out the rescue.
It's disappointing that the CG weren't able to do more. A tethered wading/swimming water rescue is absolutely something that they are all trained to do, albeit limited to a maximum of 50m from shore, as that's the length of their water rescue line.
Maybe the officer in charge felt that, in the conditions, the incoming helicopter was the safest option.
It's disappointing that the CG weren't able to do more. A tethered wading/swimming water rescue is absolutely something that they are all trained to do, albeit limited to a maximum of 50m from shore, as that's the length of their water rescue line.
Maybe the officer in charge felt that, in the conditions, the incoming helicopter was the safest option.