Fishing boat wreck off St Andrews Scotland

[Mister E]

The people doing the rescue looked like the were used to working together and knew what they were doing.
The one that went down had a rope tied around him.

So a good rescue by all involved and worth all the praise we can give.

 

[bikedaft]

A few years back the rescue helicopter was based pretty much next door at RAF Leuchars. Not sure where closest chopper is now.
Certainly a nasty set of rock ledges that side of the harbour wall. Wonder if some of the people involved in trying to help were other local fishermen?

Our locations

triangles on map - helo locations. nearest to St Andrew's is now Inverness. guesstimate flying time to St Andrew's about 30mins maybe?

 

[SaltIre]

Our locations

triangles on map - helo locations. nearest to St Andrew's is now Inverness. guesstimate flying time to St Andrew's about 30mins maybe?

This report said the helicopter from Prestwick was sent.
Two people rescued after fishing boat runs aground in St Andrews

 

[Mark-1]

I was impressed by how far, and how close to the casualty, the life-ring was thrown in the video in post #1.

This.

I could imagine myself performing every other role in the vid but there is no way I could throw that ring that distance in wind with that accuracy. Even with 50 attempts. I wonder if "throwing things a distance" is a part of fishing so he'd done it a million times before as part of his job?

As for the "stay with the boat" debate. It's a trade off. If you stay with the boat you might be lucky and end up washed high and dry or you might get tipped and crushed under the boat. Wheras if you hop out of the boat while fresh you might make it to shore under your own steam. Certainly after the battering and soaking you won't have the energy to help yourself much so once the choice is made you're committed whatever you do.

Of course it's difficult to judge distances so maybe the best course of action was more obvious if you were there. I'd stay with the boat but 20yo me might have thought it was better to make a run for it.

 

[ylop]

Our locations

triangles on map - helo locations. nearest to St Andrew's is now Inverness. guesstimate flying time to St Andrew's about 30mins maybe?

Prestwick is marginally closer (a few miles), but yes you are looking at 30 min flying time - once CG alerted, Helo identified as required, ARCC agree to request it, Crew scrambled and aircraft airborne… unless you are lucky and they are already training somewhere slightly closer, or unlucky and they are further away…

Broughty Ferry lifeboat is probably about 15NM? So even longer to get there?

Local gossip is that it was an off duty fire fighter who threw the life-ring and the guy who waded in to the water was a fisherman.

 

[NormanS]

In the local paper, one of the actual rescuers is quite derogatory about the CG.

 

[LittleSister]

This.

I could imagine myself performing every other role in the vid but there is no way I could throw that ring that distance in wind with that accuracy . . .

And the lifering was trailing a long rope, too!

 

[afterpegassus]

This.

I could imagine myself performing every other role in the vid but there is no way I could throw that ring that distance in wind with that accuracy. Even with 50 attempts. I wonder if "throwing things a distance" is a part of fishing so he'd done it a million times before as part of his job?

As for the "stay with the boat" debate. It's a trade off. If you stay with the boat you might be lucky and end up washed high and dry or you might get tipped and crushed under the boat. Wheras if you hop out of the boat while fresh you might make it to shore under your own steam. Certainly after the battering and soaking you won't have the energy to help yourself much so once the choice is made you're committed whatever you do.

Of course it's difficult to judge distances so maybe the best course of action was more obvious if you were there. I'd stay with the boat but 20yo me might have thought it was better to make a run for it.

 

[boomerangben]

If R199 was on its way, the CRT would have known this, almost certainly with an ETA. They then have an added dimension to think about that the local people would have had no knowledge of. In other words we have no idea what the CRT role was in that situation. Lots of people on an unprotected quay + rotor downwash…….

 

[dunedin]

Prestwick is marginally closer (a few miles), but yes you are looking at 30 min flying time - once CG alerted, Helo identified as required, ARCC agree to request it, Crew scrambled and aircraft airborne… unless you are lucky and they are already training somewhere slightly closer, or unlucky and they are further away…

Broughty Ferry lifeboat is probably about 15NM? So even longer to get there?

Local gossip is that it was an off duty fire fighter who threw the life-ring and the guy who waded in to the water was a fisherman.

Broughty Ferry to St Andrews time depends on height of tide and wind direction - it may be necessary to go an extra 4nm East to beyond the Inner buoy to avoid the very dangerous drying Abertay Sands.
Possibly from photos might have been near high water which may have permitted the ILB to cross the sands.

 

[dunedin]

Our locations

triangles on map - helo locations. nearest to St Andrew's is now Inverness. guesstimate flying time to St Andrew's about 30mins maybe?

Is it just me that finds the words on that MCA link somewhat arrogant and indeed perhaps offensive ……
HM Coastguard is the UK’s only national emergency service

HMC certainly initiate and coordinate a lot of rescues. But they tend to task others to do most of the dangerous bits.

What do they think the RNLI is? And is being (small and) centralised, unlike Ambulance, Fire and Police, really something they should be crowing about?

 

[Sandy]

Is it just me that finds the words on that MCA link somewhat arrogant and indeed perhaps offensive ……
HM Coastguard is the UK’s only national emergency service

HMC certainly initiate and coordinate a lot of rescues. But they tend to task others to do most of the dangerous bits.

What do they think the RNLI is? And is being (small and) centralised, unlike Ambulance, Fire and Police, really something they should be crowing about?

I think it is just you.

You dial 999 for an emergency service. HMC covers the entire United Kingdom, from Shetland to the Isles of Scilly.

Once connected to an emergency service they deploy assets to do the job, while 99% of police, fire and ambulance calls are dealt with by their own staff they can and do call on others, e.g. Mountain Rescue Teams and Military Bomb Squads.

It might be worth mentioning that RNLI, Mountain Rescue Teams and Bomb Squads can use blue lights on vehicles.

 

[ylop]

Is it just me that finds the words on that MCA link somewhat arrogant and indeed perhaps offensive ……
HM Coastguard is the UK’s only national emergency service

I’m not sure it’s offensive, but whoever decided to put that there was probably trying to make some sort of point (perhaps to their political masters). Im not sure it’s arrogant but they spend so much time emphasising how much they do in partnership with others you would think someone was smart enough to see it and say, “how will that come across to our partners”.

HMC certainly initiate and coordinate a lot of rescues. But they tend to task others to do most of the dangerous bits.

The winchmen and women of the helo’s would like a chat! However I think that might be the point they are trying to make here - without one centralised U.K. wide coordination you get chaos. Incidents close to county boundaries could have confusion which police/fire/ambulance resources to call. People already think of the RNLI as National and synonymous with the CG but there are local patches where the RNLI are not able to respond…

What do they think the RNLI is?

Not the right service to call for Loch Lomond - so not a national service (I picked that example specifically as obviously on the coast an RNLI lifeboat can get to you even if it’s not the closest service)… but can anyone recall what the correct way to request help from the Loch Lomond Rescue Boat is? I think it is NOT via the CG (although if you call them I think they will pass on the request) which makes a claim of being national puzzling… [my recollection is LLRB is deployed via the police in the same way as MRTs, and it gets even more confusing on other inland water with no local assets as police and fire service aren’t sure who is appropriate!]

And is being (small and) centralised, unlike Ambulance, Fire and Police, really something they should be crowing about?

Again, it might depend who that page was targeted at… as an organisation they do a strange mix of stuff. Not everyone is convinced that centralisation of coordination is a good thing, but it probably is a benefit of the amalgamation of police Scotland, and the Scottish fire and rescue service into single entities - with resilience and interoperability similar to the CG model and less “not our patch” concerns. But it can have downsides in terms of local knowledge.

 

[dunedin]

I’m not sure it’s offensive, but whoever decided to put that there was probably trying to make some sort of point (perhaps to their political masters). Im not sure it’s arrogant but they spend so much time emphasising how much they do in partnership with others you would think someone was smart enough to see it and say, “how will that come across to our partners”.

The winchmen and women of the helo’s would like a chat! However I think that might be the point they are trying to make here - without one centralised U.K. wide coordination you get chaos. Incidents close to county boundaries could have confusion which police/fire/ambulance resources to call. People already think of the RNLI as National and synonymous with the CG but there are local patches where the RNLI are not able to respond…

Not the right service to call for Loch Lomond - so not a national service (I picked that example specifically as obviously on the coast an RNLI lifeboat can get to you even if it’s not the closest service)… but can anyone recall what the correct way to request help from the Loch Lomond Rescue Boat is? I think it is NOT via the CG (although if you call them I think they will pass on the request) which makes a claim of being national puzzling… [my recollection is LLRB is deployed via the police in the same way as MRTs, and it gets even more confusing on other inland water with no local assets as police and fire service aren’t sure who is appropriate!]


Again, it might depend who that page was targeted at… as an organisation they do a strange mix of stuff. Not everyone is convinced that centralisation of coordination is a good thing, but it probably is a benefit of the amalgamation of police Scotland, and the Scottish fire and rescue service into single entities - with resilience and interoperability similar to the CG model and less “not our patch” concerns. But it can have downsides in terms of local knowledge.

Are the search and rescue helicopter crews actually MCA staff - or Bristows, who apparently are contracted to operate the “coastguard” helicopters.
And it is somewhat bizarre to suggest that the MCA has a more “national” coverage than the RNLI, in my view.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Are the search and rescue helicopter crews actually MCA staff - or Bristows, who apparently are contracted to operate the “coastguard” helicopters.
And it is somewhat bizarre to suggest that the MCA has a more “national” coverage than the RNLI, in my view.

But the RNLI (and all other rescue bodies) are tasked and coordinated by the CG. When you dial 999, you ask for the Coastguard, not the RNLI or MCA or local rescue service. And if you did ask for one of those, you'd be put through to the CG. It is correct to state that the CG are the emergency service, even if their role is to task and coordinate other agencies.

 

[Plum]

Is it just me that finds the words on that MCA link somewhat arrogant and indeed perhaps offensive ……
HM Coastguard is the UK’s only national emergency service

HMC certainly initiate and coordinate a lot of rescues. But they tend to task others to do most of the dangerous bits.

What do they think the RNLI is? And is being (small and) centralised, unlike Ambulance, Fire and Police, really something they should be crowing about?

That statement is true in that HM Coastguard search and rescue is one national 999 service with all it's coordination centres joined up in one system managing and deploying assets.

 

[dunedin]

That statement is true in that HM Coastguard search and rescue is one national 999 service with all it's coordination centres joined up in one system managing and deploying assets.

But is it the ONLY national emergency service, as they seem to want to arrogantly claim?
And somewhat ironic on a thread where the coastguard were apparently not getting involved with a rescue

 

[Plum]

But is it the ONLY national emergency service, as they seem to want to arrogantly claim?
And somewhat ironic on a thread where the coastguard were apparently not getting involved with a rescue

As I said, yes it is.

 

[Sandy]

But is it the ONLY national emergency service, as they seem to want to arrogantly claim?
And somewhat ironic on a thread where the coastguard were apparently not getting involved with a rescue

Any evidence for that last statement?

Who tasked R199? Who gave the SITREP to the control room?

 

[NormanS]

You can argue all you like about the finer points, but all of the actual rescuing was done by the locals. The CRT spectated. It is said (I cannot verify this) that they are not allowed to go into water more than knee deep.