Fisher 25 or LM 27.

this thread is re-awakening motor sailor lust in me

winter sailing must be a completely different experience in a Fisher as compared to my unheated Centaur.

My wife thinks I am both crackers and rediculously cold tolerant

D
 
Hadenough said:
What happened to the flowerpot and candles?
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now featuring in the latest Ken Loach film

https://www.timeout.com/paris/en/film/i-daniel-blake

In style, 'I, Daniel Blake' is perhaps Loach's most unassuming, straightforward film since 2001's 'The Navigators'. It goes in for the kill almost meekly. Like almost all of Loach's film's of the past 20 years, it's written by Paul Laverty, and there are small moments which betray his keen researcher's nose, like the tactics used to keep an unheated property warm (bubble wrap on the windows; candle-powered improvised heaters). A sub-plot about Dan's younger neighbour selling dodgy trainers imported from China feels a touch superfluous (another detail surely picked up in research), but this is mostly a film with a clear-headed and undiluted mission. It shares its purpose with some humour and a whole load of passion and fury.
 
Just to correct some misinformation that is being put forward on this thread. There was no Fisher 32. There was a Fisher 30 which was very successful and replaced with the Fisher 31 which was not very successful. There was a similar vessel of 32 feet which was built in Australia to slightly different lines and was 32 feet. IIRC it was called a Freeward Fisher or similar.

The Fisher 25 sails extremely well and makes excellent sea times. The cockpit is ok (ish) for 25' largely due to having a transom stern other than the canoe stern of the larger Fishers. The wheelhouse however is tiny and if you are of any height you will have to stand in it with bent knees. Also consider the logistics of berthing a boat where the steering is inside a wheelhouse. If you are singlehanded you have a long way to travel to get a line on especially if the wind/tide is pushing you away from your desired location.
Personally I would choose the F31. It has double doors on the wheelhouse, sloop rig and the wheelhouse is the one off the Fisher 34 so plenty of room. Finding one however is not that easy.
 
Just noticed the raised foredeck on the F25. Looks a bit odd I think, the bigger fishers and all the CW's have a nice high bulwark and huge clear foredeck to fiddle about on. My CW28 foredeck feels like a safe haven but getting to it past the outward leaning wheelhouse sides can be a bit awkward if your hands are full. I agree with comments about docking single handed, it can take a surprisingly long time to get from the helm to the side deck. Getting lines ready and led aft helps,

Thank you ColvicWatson, the lines of the 28 are rather nice but the larger CW's are better!
 
Jcorstorphine said:
I am still looking for a new (to me) boat and have decided (reluctantly) that at the age of 72, to go for a yacht such as a Westerly 31 ft such as a Renown or a Pentland would not be that wise.
So after much soul searching, I feel a motor sailer would be more suitable and have narrowed it down to either a Fisher 25 or an LM27 and plan to look at both of these next week.
Problem is, I like both boats for different reasons.
The Fisher is attractive from its feeling of safety on the side decks, its chuncky little wheelhouse and the fact that the Mizzen can be set as a steadying sail.
The LM has the attraction of being more of a true 50/50 as my understanding is that they sail quite well so that tends to keep my wish to keep sailing but have the comfort of the wheelhouse which can be fully enclosed by two doors.

So, my question is, LM 27 or Fisher 25. Both are the same price near enough but the LM is 9 years younger that the Fisher

Just to complicate things, there is one other factor and that is the Fisher has a Volvo 2003T which gives me the "willies" OK it is 40 hp but can it be used, some of the older Fishers were a bit low on power with some built with 18 hp Yanmars.

Other question about the Fisher is who built her as I have heard that the ones built by Pennington Marine for Fairways were no as good as ones built by Northshore.

Can anyone help me with any experience of these two yachts

Thanks
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How about a Freeward 25?
 
Have a look at the Coaster 33. OK I know the OP said no 30+ footers but the Coaster33 is the smallest 33 footer afloat, narrow and easy to handle. Much lower displacement than a Fisher34 or CW34, it's drop dead gorgeous and commands a strong following. But then come to think about it, so do the vast majority of motorsailers - a bit like multihulls you fall for their benefits and forgive their weaknesses. We spend 3 months afloat each year and couldn't manage 3 weeks if it wasn't for the wheelhouse, it utterly transforms family sailing but you have to forgive the lack of pointing, no matter what some claim - a long keel, heavy displacement, low mast, low aspect ratio yacht can be persuaded to point higher than 50 degrees but your VMG is going to hell in a handcart.

large_6c12a58e3e08608211e40db5981b1f78-foto3.jpg
 
These two boats are chalk and cheese and just not comparable, I spent some time considering both and ended up with an LM27, and also looked at the Colvic Watson's, my reasons are as follows.
Colvic, a motor boat with sails, yes I know owners say they sail well and I am sure they do within the capability of large topsides , shallow draft, lot of weight above the waterline, and also, I was told on several occasions that they roll and to make sure that I get one with bilge keels as this reduces the roll, for what it's worth that was the information given. Accommodation, on the 26 models I viewed the forecabin was good, but the dinette arrangements made for two children only, short of length and width, the 28 was better but still narrow and unless you were very friendly, not suitable for a good night's sleep. The dinette arrangements with cooking facilities opposite made for very cramped areas. Again I must emphasise this is what I saw on the ones I viewed and doesn't probably apply to all as they were mainly home fitted out.
All had lots of power in engine, various types fitted, Volvo, which I would avoid, Mercedes, Yan mar , BMC etc, the latter would be my choice as they are common on the canals therefore cheap and readily available parts, rebuild etc. But it all cases the engine ,sails and rigging are critical, expenditure on these can be more that the cost of the boat. Fisher, very expensive for what it is, cramped accommodation and very cramped in the wheelhouse, if you have the money then the 30 or above is a better boat, also not all 25s are Fishers, some are Potters, similar but with a different deck moulding, at least that is what I understand, no doubt someone will explain the difference, so I rejected the Fisher on price and accommodation, but it's the best looking boat.
LM,27, a sailing boat with a sheltered steering position, sails as well as any shallow keel boat will, one poster said it rolls, mine doesn't, low profile and good ballast makes it quite powerful. Accommodation is different to most boats of this size, the forecabin is small, short adults or children, the main cabin is big , the seat's fold out to make excellent beds, nice and wide, toilet small, as on the other two contenders, in the wheelhouse the cooker, sink etc with plenty of room and in the stern a pull out table with just enough seating for six, the boat is really good for entertaining as the cook is on the same level as the diners. Engine access excellent, I think most has a Bukh fitted, a proper boat engine but expensive for spares and not as powerful as those fitted in the Colvics, usually 20 / 24 HP, but then the boat is a lower profile and not as heavy. So I ended up with the LM, am I happy with it, yes, at the moment, but I am fickle so maybe one day something else. The one thing that I would say is prices asked for these boats are ridiculous, I see LMs still on the market at silly money four years after I bought mine, in my opinion no LM mk 1/2/3 is worth more than £12k and the same applies to the Colvics, indeed I was offered eventually a nice 26 for £10k down from £17k, I bought mine for £11k four years ago, value now, probably the same or a bit less as the market in old, or possibly any, boat is shot.
 
There are only a very few volume motorsailers marques as anyone who looks for a m/s will discover. When you find one you like as you've done banger it's worth holding on to!
 
Banger, you are spot on. The Fisher is silly money, most are asking £24k but therd are a lot of LM27s on the market at even sillier money. Boatshed have an LM27 at £29,950. Most are asking mid to low 20s. My feeling is that the brokers are kidding their clients on by overvaluing their boats.
I have now written off the Fisher as it is just not worth the money.
At the moment, I am going to look at an lm27 with rear doors to the wheelhouse and bilge keels, trouble is it is too expensive.
At my last trawel, there are about 12 LM27 for sale.
There are a few on the market at arround 16 to 19k, the one I am looking at is low 20s.

Thanks for your thoughts Banger
 
Just a thought, I bought mine in the Netherlands so it's worth a trawle of the continental adverts, a lot of boats for sale there. Also asking price is not selling price, it would take a brave broker to refuse to put your offer, no matter how silly, to the owner, after all he is asking silly money so he can't get upset if you adopt the same strategy. Her can always tell you to foxtrot Oscar.
 
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