First Time Atlantic Crossing - Advice Please!

[cjfield]

Hello, people of the YBW-forum,

As a group of 3 friends from University, we have enjoyed sailing together for the last few years. First we were Comp Crews, then Day Skippers, now one of us has his Yachtmaster Coastal and we all hope to be Yachtmasters within the next 12 months (and maybe a couple of Offshore ratings too). We generally sail an Elan 340 out of Gosport Marina, in any direction that takes our fancy.

The idea of doing an Atlantic crossing (from the UK to the Caribbean) within the next few years has appealed to us greatly, but we'd like to know the pros and cons of the different ways of doing it. Doing it as part of the ARC is a big appeal and we see the following options:

• Buying a yacht, kitting her out, sailing her over with a few more crew and selling her at the other end,
• Bareboat charter across the Atlantic, add a few more crew, potentially identify an independent skipper if this is a requirement,
• Offer our services on a yacht delivery which already has an experienced skipper,
• Join an ARC boat which is looking for additional crew, in the form of 3 qualified yachtsmen who get on well,
• Sailing over as paying crew with a school or a company like Tall Ships Adventures.

We're not daunted by the idea of skippering the yacht ourselves, as long as we can find enough competent and trustworthy crew to accompany us, and can get sufficient practice in the yacht beforehand with some practice crossings. We are a bit daunted, however, by the idea of having to kit a yacht out from scratch, especially if any of the systems on board are a bit 'dodgy', and trusting that you'll find someone to sell the yacht to at the far end seems like a big financial risk and headache.

What we do want to get out of this is the excitement and challenge of practising, preparing, planning and executing this big adventure and of course the act of sailing a significant global distance under the guidance of our own initiative. The camaraderie and companionship of the ARC is a big appeal, hence why we want to join.

So - has anybody done this before and can point out the relative merits of these options? Or are there any others which we are missing?

Thanks,

Colin, Toby and Jon.

 

[alkira]

"What we do want to get out of this is the excitement and challenge of practising, preparing, planning and executing this big adventure and of course the act of sailing a significant global distance under the guidance of our own initiative. The camaraderie and companionship of the ARC is a big appeal, hence why we want to join."

Great you have ambition to sail long distance. There is not a lot in the Yachtmaster course that you need to sail across the atlantic that you cannot glean from accounts of other people crossing. Pretty much put the sails up and go .....reef a bit if necessary and obviously carry enough food and water

Your quote above is a bit of a contradiction.......if you want to sail distance under the guidance of your own initiative then avoid the ARC like the plague ....they'll dictate a whole lot of what you do . It's a nasty blend of Butlins, Caravan Club and 18-30 holiday !

Once you get out there ,the cruising community has heaps of camaraderie and companionship of its own .....you don't need someone with an eye on their profit and loss statement telling you what to do......good luck

 

[Sandyman]

I would say your 1st option. Why sell her out there? why not sail her back?
Plenty of boats available, many requiring little or no work/kitting out to do a successful & enjoyable crossing.
I also agree with alkira......................stay well clear of the ARC. You don't need them.

 

[LadyInBed]

A lot depends on how much time you all have available as to which is your best option.
Boats tend to head down to the ARC kickoff point in the summer, ready for the November start.
How much time do you want to spend over the other side?

 

[Angele]

Is option 2 possible? Are there really charter cos out there who will charter out a boat for an Atlantic crossing on a bareboat basis? (And, if there are, would they be likely to do so to a bunch of first timers?)

 

[prv]

Is option 2 possible? Are there really charter cos out there who will charter out a boat for an Atlantic crossing on a bareboat basis? (And, if there are, would they be likely to do so to a bunch of first timers?)

I think Sunsail used to get the boats to their Caribbean bases by offering cheap one-way charters for people to sail them over. They probably go by ship now.

Pete

 

[alant]

Hello, people of the YBW-forum,

As a group of 3 friends from University, we have enjoyed sailing together for the last few years. First we were Comp Crews, then Day Skippers, now one of us has his Yachtmaster Coastal and we all hope to be Yachtmasters within the next 12 months (and maybe a couple of Offshore ratings too). We generally sail an Elan 340 out of Gosport Marina, in any direction that takes our fancy.

The idea of doing an Atlantic crossing (from the UK to the Caribbean) within the next few years has appealed to us greatly, but we'd like to know the pros and cons of the different ways of doing it. Doing it as part of the ARC is a big appeal and we see the following options:

• Buying a yacht, kitting her out, sailing her over with a few more crew and selling her at the other end,
• Bareboat charter across the Atlantic, add a few more crew, potentially identify an independent skipper if this is a requirement,
• Offer our services on a yacht delivery which already has an experienced skipper,
• Join an ARC boat which is looking for additional crew, in the form of 3 qualified yachtsmen who get on well,
• Sailing over as paying crew with a school or a company like Tall Ships Adventures.

We're not daunted by the idea of skippering the yacht ourselves, as long as we can find enough competent and trustworthy crew to accompany us, and can get sufficient practice in the yacht beforehand with some practice crossings. We are a bit daunted, however, by the idea of having to kit a yacht out from scratch, especially if any of the systems on board are a bit 'dodgy', and trusting that you'll find someone to sell the yacht to at the far end seems like a big financial risk and headache.

What we do want to get out of this is the excitement and challenge of practising, preparing, planning and executing this big adventure and of course the act of sailing a significant global distance under the guidance of our own initiative. The camaraderie and companionship of the ARC is a big appeal, hence why we want to join.

So - has anybody done this before and can point out the relative merits of these options? Or are there any others which we are missing?

Thanks,

Colin, Toby and Jon.

Selling a boat over there, means buying a boat acceptable in that market.
I'm sure you'll be able to suss that out, but you may need big pockets first.
Don't IMO, buy an excellent 'local UK' boat, which no-one over there recognises.

There are several forumites languishing on a beach, who may be able to guide you.

PS, the camaraderie of the arc, will be lost as soon as you leave the last bar & drop your lines. Its a big lonely ocean out there!

 

[Neil_Y]

You get plenty of companionship and camaraderies from other cruising yachts, there are many places to leave from and you will meet many people with lots of experience to share. I sailed from Gomera the last time leaving early January and there are still many boats heading off around then.

Boat wise if you can get £10k together for a boat you can probably do it. You need a water tight boat with a sound keel, rudder and rig. A sextant and some tables and quite importantly a few charts. Last trip I met three Norwegians in their early 20's in a 28' boat having a ball (after they'd negotiated November/December storms in Biscay and down the portuguese coast) Why sell a boat over there? the best bit is the sail back and stopping at the Azores.

You really don't need the ARC, they need you more to fund the parties, however the best parties in the caribbean are in the locals bars or at shirleys heights.

look omn apollo duck there are three boats I'd go in tomorrow if I had the time for under £9500, you'd be able to sell the boat on your return for a similar figure I'd guess. So save £5k each and you can get a boat and go. I'd suggest having Christmas new year in the Canaries and leave early Jan when the weather is often more settled and trades have started properly. Much more of an adventure if you dio it yourself, being crew on a yacht can be quite dull especially if you find you don't get on that well after a week.

 

[sailorsteve]

Pm sent

 

[snowleopard]

• Buying a yacht, kitting her out, sailing her over with a few more crew and selling her at the other end,
• Bareboat charter across the Atlantic, add a few more crew, potentially identify an independent skipper if this is a requirement,
• Offer our services on a yacht delivery which already has an experienced skipper,
• Join an ARC boat which is looking for additional crew, in the form of 3 qualified yachtsmen who get on well,
• Sailing over as paying crew with a school or a company like Tall Ships Adventures.

Don't buy a boat hoping you can sell it at the other end, others hhave tried the same and boats out there are a drag on the market. Boats kept in tropical heat while waiting for a sale deteriorate rapidly and grow mould, varnish flakes off and the value is a fraction of what you would have paid.

Don't charter. I looked at that option and was advised by my former agent I'd be far better buying secondhand and re-selling back home.

Delivery skippers are extremely unlikely to take on 3 inexperienced people on one trip. I once picked up a berth on a transatlantic delivery but it was eastbound - much less popular.

You might strike lucky and get a berth on an ARC boat but the skippers are beating off potential crews with a stick. You certainly won't find a boat to take all 3 of you together.

We took 3 extra crew for our crossing, recruited from the ARC website but they were all fairly experienced.

You can certainly get a paid berth on one of the big boats going across. In 2001 the going rate was around £2500 per berth. You could even go on a tall ship for around that price. STS Tenacious has gone across several times.

Take no notice of people who sneer at the ARC unless they have actually done it themselves. We did it and enjoyed the experience. It has up and down sides which I have listed for the benefit of others considering it....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pros and Cons of rallying
Many sailors speak disparagingly of rally participants, assuming they are all beginners who wouldn’t leave the Solent without a nanny organisation to look after them and imply that real sailors travel independently. We have done both and would consider another rally in future. We met no-one on the rallies who couldn’t have gone across the ocean on their own, the supposed wet-behind-the-ears beginner is a complete myth.
Pro

• The biggest draw for many people is the social side, getting to meet other crews, not to mention the numerous parties. For us the party circuit started in Lagos when we invited everyone who was flying an ARC flag aboard for drinks; we regularly met up with that group over the next 6 months in many anchorages.
• The support provided by the rally organisers was useful, for example they found me an English-speaking dentist when I lost a tooth three days before departure from Las Palmas.
• The daily radio net and position reporting meant that our family knew where we were (at least some of the time) and when things went wrong there was help at hand. Our friends on Spirit of Clyde rescued a French singlehander whose boat sank and two other boats stood by to help. Most rescues involve ARC participants helping non-ARC boats
• Reserved berths at either end were useful, especially in Las Palmas and it was good to have someone to take our lines as we came into St Lucia with engine problems.
• The ARC rallies are run as races and the friendly competition added to the interest of the passage. For the keen racers there was also an all-out racing division.
• Because of the number of people taking part, some of the big names in ocean cruising came to give seminars, for example Jimmy Cornell on routes beyond the Caribbean and David Jones on Caribbean meteorology.

Con

• Rallies always have pre-set start times and there is pressure to stick to those because of the shore team’s hotel and flight bookings. If the weather turns bad, as it did when we left Bermuda for the Azores, you have to be strong-minded to stay in harbour when others are pressing on.
• In a very structured rally like the ARC there is no opportunity for unplanned stops so we missed out on the Cape Verdes and Barbados. For that reason alone we will probably avoid the ARC next time round.
• Some crews get a bit over-enthusiastic about completing the crossing and hit the party scene hard. That gets a bit wearing if you’re moored right in front of the marina bar and the music is still going strong at 5a.m.
• The downside of the racing element is the temptation to hang on to canvas a bit longer and risk damage to gear.
• On a multi-leg rally like ARC Europe, the fast boats spend a lot of time in port waiting for the others to catch up and the slow boats have a shorter time to rest and repair before moving on.
• The ARC isn't cheap. It is better value for money than others because the cost of staff flights is spread over 200+ boats but it still takes a big lump out of a cruising budget. The current cost for a 40 footer with 4 crew is over £900. (2003)

 

[Peroo]

Don't buy a boat hoping you can sell it at the other end, others hhave tried the same and boats out there are a drag on the market. Boats kept in tropical heat while waiting for a sale deteriorate rapidly and grow mould, varnish flakes off and the value is a fraction of what you would have paid.

Don't charter. I looked at that option and was advised by my former agent I'd be far better buying secondhand and re-selling back home.

Delivery skippers are extremely unlikely to take on 3 inexperienced people on one trip. I once picked up a berth on a transatlantic delivery but it was eastbound - much less popular.

You might strike lucky and get a berth on an ARC boat but the skippers are beating off potential crews with a stick. You certainly won't find a boat to take all 3 of you together.

We took 3 extra crew for our crossing, recruited from the ARC website but they were all fairly experienced.

You can certainly get a paid berth on one of the big boats going across. In 2001 the going rate was around £2500 per berth. You could even go on a tall ship for around that price. STS Tenacious has gone across several times.

Take no notice of people who sneer at the ARC unless they have actually done it themselves. We did it and enjoyed the experience. It has up and down sides which I have listed for the benefit of others considering it....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pros and Cons of rallying
Many sailors speak disparagingly of rally participants, assuming they are all beginners who wouldn’t leave the Solent without a nanny organisation to look after them and imply that real sailors travel independently. We have done both and would consider another rally in future. We met no-one on the rallies who couldn’t have gone across the ocean on their own, the supposed wet-behind-the-ears beginner is a complete myth.
Pro

• The biggest draw for many people is the social side, getting to meet other crews, not to mention the numerous parties. For us the party circuit started in Lagos when we invited everyone who was flying an ARC flag aboard for drinks; we regularly met up with that group over the next 6 months in many anchorages.
• The support provided by the rally organisers was useful, for example they found me an English-speaking dentist when I lost a tooth three days before departure from Las Palmas.
• The daily radio net and position reporting meant that our family knew where we were (at least some of the time) and when things went wrong there was help at hand. Our friends on Spirit of Clyde rescued a French singlehander whose boat sank and two other boats stood by to help. Most rescues involve ARC participants helping non-ARC boats
• Reserved berths at either end were useful, especially in Las Palmas and it was good to have someone to take our lines as we came into St Lucia with engine problems.
• The ARC rallies are run as races and the friendly competition added to the interest of the passage. For the keen racers there was also an all-out racing division.
• Because of the number of people taking part, some of the big names in ocean cruising came to give seminars, for example Jimmy Cornell on routes beyond the Caribbean and David Jones on Caribbean meteorology.

Con

• Rallies always have pre-set start times and there is pressure to stick to those because of the shore team’s hotel and flight bookings. If the weather turns bad, as it did when we left Bermuda for the Azores, you have to be strong-minded to stay in harbour when others are pressing on.
• In a very structured rally like the ARC there is no opportunity for unplanned stops so we missed out on the Cape Verdes and Barbados. For that reason alone we will probably avoid the ARC next time round.
• Some crews get a bit over-enthusiastic about completing the crossing and hit the party scene hard. That gets a bit wearing if you’re moored right in front of the marina bar and the music is still going strong at 5a.m.
• The downside of the racing element is the temptation to hang on to canvas a bit longer and risk damage to gear.
• On a multi-leg rally like ARC Europe, the fast boats spend a lot of time in port waiting for the others to catch up and the slow boats have a shorter time to rest and repair before moving on.
• The ARC isn't cheap. It is better value for money than others because the cost of staff flights is spread over 200+ boats but it still takes a big lump out of a cruising budget. The current cost for a 40 footer with 4 crew is over £900. (2003)

Excellent post - we crossed in 2010 and I would echo and second your observations entirely.

 

[GHA]

Sailing's the easy bit, it's all about maintenance...

But go for it I say, buy a boat, go sailing south, something will happen

Maybe without getting too hung up on longer term plans, you'll think and feel differently after a load of miles under the keel.

 

[snowleopard]

Sailing's the easy bit, it's all about maintenance...

Long term cruising is the art of doing boat repairs in paradise.

 

[Birdseye]

• Buying a yacht, kitting her out, sailing her over with a few more crew and selling her at the other end,
• Bareboat charter across the Atlantic, add a few more crew, potentially identify an independent skipper if this is a requirement,
• Offer our services on a yacht delivery which already has an experienced skipper,
• Join an ARC boat which is looking for additional crew, in the form of 3 qualified yachtsmen who get on well,
• Sailing over as paying crew with a school or a company like Tall Ships Adventures.

.

First issue is you. Are you three arty media graduates or three engineering graduates. If the latter then fitting out a boat will be easy. If the former, get someone else to do it for you. However, forget any idea you might have of buing cheaply here and selling expensively in the US. Theiur boat prices tend to be lower, they like US brands not british ones. They like new and shiny - old and used less so.

I reckon you might find option two very expensive indeed. And you could not just leave the boat there like a hertz renal car

3 and 4 might well work. I have several pals who do that sort of boat crewing and they seem to have no difficulty in finding skippers wanting crew.

option 5 see option 2. its a cost issue.

 

[laika]

3 and 4 might well work. I have several pals who do that sort of boat crewing and they seem to have no difficulty in finding skippers wanting crew.

3 and 4 I think are less viable if all 3 want to be together.

Although there does seem to be a reasonable amount of westbound delivery stuff, especially in autumn (particularly new french cats if what I'm sent is anything to go by) I'd possibly question the wisdom of a skipper taking on 3 unknowns who're all mates. A normal transatlantic delivery crew might be 4 people. 3 vs 1 might not be the ideal group dynamic from the skipper's point of view. Moreover if one of 3 crew jumps ship at the azores/Madeira you can carry on with 2 + skipper. Take on 3 friends and they'd likely all go together.

Never hired crew myself: only ever been mate. What do the professional skippers think?

 

[Neil_Y]

I've taken on crew to give them a lift across like hitching, we didn't need them but the extra pairs of hands can make life easier. I've also heard of skippers taking crew on for shared cost crewing who couldn't steer, weren't that experienced, didn't contribute much and were lucky they weren't asked to swim back to the canaries after a few days. So you take quite a big gamble. 3 weeks in a small space you have to be quite easy going.

I still think if you can scrape together £5k each you stand a good chance of sailing your own boat which is by far the best option.

As others have said hitching/crewing as one or two is OK but three together is going to be much harder.

 

[capnsensible]

Never hired crew myself: only ever been mate. What do the professional skippers think?

The 6 pro crossings I've done I sorted out my own crew. The bigger companies can recruit off websites.

Dockwalking seems to be fading away like hitch hiking. Lost count of the number of back packers wandering around Marina Bay this year, don't think one got a trip.

For the OP first time, do it yourself.... I did! :encouragement:

 

[laika]

The 6 pro crossings I've done I sorted out my own crew. The bigger companies can recruit off websites.

What I meant was..would you choose to take on as crew for a trans atlantic three people who were close friends with each other but you didn't know?

 

[capnsensible]

What I meant was..would you choose to take on as crew for a trans atlantic three people who were close friends with each other but you didn't know?

Roger that. Yes I would. In fact it would probably easier than the cat herding that sometimes goes on for independent delivery skippers.

 

[LadyInBed]

Does anyone else who normally sails s/h and is contemplating a transatlantic think this is a good opportunity to pick up a crew for the trip?
If I were heading that way I would.