Chiara’s slave
Well-Known Member
Clearly you’ve never met my wife.
First Sailboat Purchase Looming - Friendly Advice Appreciated!
- Thread starter reyes
- Start date
Barton Seagoon
Well-Known Member
Since it is quite likely to be an ex-charter boat, make sure that your survey has a very close look for any evidence of hard running aground on keel and rudder. From what we hear on these forums, many charter boats get knocked onto rocks or other obstructions rather too often.
Skylark
Well-Known Member
I’m way out of touch with boat prices but, intuitively, it seems very cheap. A lot of boat for relatively little money.
I don’t know the 373 but I’ve done a lot of cumulative miles in similar aged 361, 393, 411 and 473. I’ve had a 41 for the last 12 seasons. Wouldn’t hesitate for a second in recommending the brand.
Almost everything has been said. Use your eyes, open and lift everything, check that everything works. Most important, what is your wife/partners “first impression”?
I don’t know the 373 but I’ve done a lot of cumulative miles in similar aged 361, 393, 411 and 473. I’ve had a 41 for the last 12 seasons. Wouldn’t hesitate for a second in recommending the brand.
Almost everything has been said. Use your eyes, open and lift everything, check that everything works. Most important, what is your wife/partners “first impression”?
ylop
Well-Known Member
If you reject a boat because it doesnt have a heater, you are either going to spend a lot or never find a boat that ticks all the boxes.
Three owners before me sailed my boat around the Clyde and West of Scotland and never installed a heater. My better half insisted it was an essential upgrade. It barely gets used - because we boat April-Oct and tend to go when the weather is nice! It wasn’t particularly expensive in boat terms - a Chinaspacher if about £100 and upgrading it to marine spec exhaust, ducting etc probably added another £400. There was lots of swearing and skin lost from knuckles installing the bloody thing, but even if you paid someone to do it - it’s cheaper than a new sail, and autopilot, new instrumentation, a dinghy+outboard, etc which many boats will need.
Chiara’s slave
Well-Known Member
We are as far south as it gets, and I can assure you ours is very well used indeed. Today in fact, and any day up til about June
As you say, these days they’re quite cheap to install so it’s absence does not need to be a dealbreaker.reyes
Active Member
She likes the idea of something roomy as I do, too.
That's great to hear, thanks. It's my first time dealing with these guys but it seems like they're well respected so thanks for letting me know, too!
I've been a bit torn. I did like the size of the Sigma 33, but the extra cabin space is really nice, which I noticed on a Bavaria 37 first. I did ponder the Bavaria 34 as they're quite roomy apparently, but this one really caught my eye. I think there may be some bias in a way as well as I wanted an Oceanis when I first saw them!
As it happens, I've driven from Nottinghamshire to the south coast tonight to go and see Mark and the boat tomorrow. The thing I'm nervous about is the single handing suitability at some point. Pondering that a lot!
Hypothetically, were there some room to negotiate on price, would it seem to represent a good deal (assuming a survey passes) or is the assumption and possibility of it being a charter boat a big siren that should be causing me to back off?
Once again, thanks for all the input -- the more the better!
ashtead
Well-Known Member
I don’t profess as much experience as many forumites however a few observations:-
1 yes the quoted price seems cheap -it’s what you would be paying for a Bav34 but clearly you can look at the clipper website etc ;
2 it says it has a shallow keel -many charter Bene do but how well does it sail to windward - my concern but I’ve never sailed one would be ability to sail upwind;
3check that the refrigerator actually chills and doesn’t need regassing;
4the cooker might need replacing -are the gas lines up to date -have the surveyor look at lines but you might need to budget for a new stove;
5those berths look well used -budget to replace the berth cushions if you want a comfortable nights sleep;
6 I guess the engine hours might be high if known ?
7 I sold via clipper marine so while I haven’t dealt with Mark they have a good reputation in market;
8 no bowthruster which ideally I would have on this size of vessel
9as said a heating system if using in uk would be useful if not essential;
10 -sails -clearly might be original but the headsail might need replacing ?
In summary I guess it depends on how essential a 37 is for you compared with say a 34 Bav or Hanse etc . It rather turns on sailing plans and size of crew
Good luck with your search
1 yes the quoted price seems cheap -it’s what you would be paying for a Bav34 but clearly you can look at the clipper website etc ;
2 it says it has a shallow keel -many charter Bene do but how well does it sail to windward - my concern but I’ve never sailed one would be ability to sail upwind;
3check that the refrigerator actually chills and doesn’t need regassing;
4the cooker might need replacing -are the gas lines up to date -have the surveyor look at lines but you might need to budget for a new stove;
5those berths look well used -budget to replace the berth cushions if you want a comfortable nights sleep;
6 I guess the engine hours might be high if known ?
7 I sold via clipper marine so while I haven’t dealt with Mark they have a good reputation in market;
8 no bowthruster which ideally I would have on this size of vessel
9as said a heating system if using in uk would be useful if not essential;
10 -sails -clearly might be original but the headsail might need replacing ?
In summary I guess it depends on how essential a 37 is for you compared with say a 34 Bav or Hanse etc . It rather turns on sailing plans and size of crew
Good luck with your search
ylop
Well-Known Member
It seems "too cheap". So almost regardless of wriggle room on price it COULD be a good deal, having been a charter boat shouldn't automatically be a no-no. When I bought ours I looked at two ex charter boats at the same time - one was in great shape, one was extremely tired (varnish, fabrics, chips, scrapes, rigging etc) so base it on what your see and smell (I think you can judge a lot about a boat with your nose!). If you get as far as survey then you will want to know about the keel integrity but I wouldn't assume that a charter boat is a bigger risk there - its not sailing it regularly that causes the problem, its hitting something solid at speed and a private owner is perfectly able to make that mistake too.
I was in a similar metaphorical boat to you not that long ago - having messed around in powerboats and dinghies for years and then looking for a comfortable cruising yacht. I've never found any difficulty rustling up "company" for any trip, mostly enthusiastic rather than experienced crew - non-sailing friends who also enjoy the comforts your wife and you find appealing! How big an issue will depend on where/how you use the boat - there's tricks and techniques that can help a lot. I can assure you its perfectly possible to screw up close quarters handling in a 32ft boat...
The one thing I would say is you will be paying 16% more for berthing costs, and all those points about bigger loads = more expensive ropes, larger sails (so bigger laundry and replacement costs) etc etc.
if it has been chartered recently the gas lines should be fine - but even if they are out of date its not expensive to replace them, changing the gas lines does not mandate a new stove.
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
We don’t have a bow thruster on our 39’ boat and I’ve no desire to fit one. In fact I’ve spent my entire sailing life driving boats up to 70/80 feet long without a bow thruster. I’ve experienced using one but only on a customers boat or a boat I was delivering.
The point I’m making is that with the greatest respect you DON’t have to have a bow thruster. With practice and care most boats can be managed without one. The 373 drives very nicely and I wouldn’t spending £££ retro fitting a bow thruster.
jlavery
Well-Known Member
As others have commented - the price does seem very low for this class and age of boat. Why? Assuming that the boat is the one in the link posted above, it does look quite tired (down below looks a bit worn, running rigging also from photos), which could be the reason.
Having looked at lots of boats over the years (and am looking now - separate story), there's usually a reason for the bargain.
Have you asked the broker why the price is so low?
Having looked at lots of boats over the years (and am looking now - separate story), there's usually a reason for the bargain.
Have you asked the broker why the price is so low?
flaming
Well-Known Member
Whilst you're on the south coast, if I was you I'd take the opportunity to look at some other boats to get an idea of what a 32 footer offers.
For example (and I know nothing of this boat, found it online...) https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/yacht/2009-dufour-325-grand-large-9499916/
That's listed at the same price, though sounds like it does need new standing rigging.
macca499
Well-Known Member
When I first started looking, the first boat I viewed was a pristine 2003 Bav 32 up at Mark Cameron in Tarbert which I really liked and was asking £40k, although named a 32 I believe the length is closer 34, I think where you notice the extra space between this and the boat you are looking at is the forward berth and cockpit but I thought it perfectly adequate for a family of 4 and looked to be user friendly
reyes
Active Member
Good call, which I've heeded and am going to check another out before the one we've been discussing. The Dufour looks nice also; as you say, the rigging appears to need changing with a quote of £4500 stated. I'd be curious how much movement on price they'd offer based on the stated reduction of £8k!
On the single handing subject, what I'm taking away from everything is it's all very doable, but practice is a must. I had planned on doing some 'marina skills' days to really hammer it, especially on the south coast where the tide is pretty significant and so it'd force me to deal with that.
I am curious about whether people use any powered winches, mainly for the mainsheet, and whether they are considered a significant benefit if single handing? I appreciate may be diverging in topic but it feels related!
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
On a boat of the size we’re discussing powered winches aren’t necessary unless you’re really decrepit! You shouldn’t need a winch on the main at all. For example we’ve got a winch on the mainsheet of our 39’ Westerly Sealord. I use it less than 0.5% of the time.
£4500 for new rigging sounds exorbitant. Ours cost about half that two years ago IIRC.
reyes
Active Member
I'll bear that (rigging point) in mind, thank you.
Haha, I like to think I'm not decrepit -- 38 years young, good fitness and healthy! It sounds like I'd probably get ridiculed for using a powered winch so that's off the table!
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Single handing a 37 footer is very doable, particularly for somebody like you who is much younger than most on here - including me.
A bow thruster plus remote control is really helpful - but not essential, as others have said. A very good autopilot is essential though.
In terms of power winch, again not needed on boat of that size - especially if apply good technique when tacking (holding boat above course until jib / genoa sheeted in tight).
Certainly don’t need winch for a decent main sheet system at that size. We have one electric winch on the main halyard, on the coachroof. This helps a lot when hoisting the main single handed. And can be used as a general assistance tool for various other halyards and ropes - eg cross routed from the other coachroof winch. But it only avoids 2-3 minutes with a winch handle so an unnecessary luxury, and way down the priority list compared to autopilot, anchor windlass and perhaps bow thruster.
Skylark
Well-Known Member
Can argue positives and negatives about most bits on a boat. Great care is needed with a power winch as there is no “feel” when pressing a button. Easy to cause damage for the unobservant. I have one on my coachroof and at times it’s most welcome. I’ve sailed with some that I wouldn’t trust with one, sadly.
mrming
Well-Known Member
With a bit of shopping around, it might be possible to get the Dufour standing rigging done for around £3k, particularly if it’s done mast up to avoid crane costs etc. Used boats are full of £3k costs, however, it’s just a matter of which ones you get.
John_Silver
Well-Known Member
When choosing a length of boat, one factor, not so far mentioned, is the ‘break points’ at which marina £ per metre increases. Because, as well as paying for more metres, the rate for each of those metres increases, as the boat gets longer. With one uplift (generally) at 10m+ and another at 12m+
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flaming
Well-Known Member
It's doable, sure. I've done it. It's easier in a smaller boat though.
