First Sailboat Purchase Looming - Friendly Advice Appreciated!

[mattonthesea]

Is Bav 32 is rated for Offshore?

 

[reyes]

Is Bav 32 is rated for Offshore?

I think all Bavarias are A rated, yes...

 

[Tranona]

Thanks for the tag! They do look nice those Dehlers...

As it happens, I'm torn between a couple of boats:

Boat Details – Origin Yachts
2001 – Bavaria 32 Cruiser With A Volvo Penta MD2020 19hp Engine | Parker Adams Boat Sales

The first (Bavaria 35): shallow keel (I'm on east coast of England), bit older, less recent upgrades but still good. I've called out the shallow keel here in case that becomes a factor based on:

The second (Bavaria 32) so a little under 33ft, has a long keel (1.75m), but is in tidier condition (I've viewed both) and very recent upgrades in so many areas.

My aims are to do some Faroe Island visits, English channel crossings, and perhaps (but for future) North Sea adventures. For those that have read earlier parts of this, I also like the idea of being able to single hand.

ANY thoughts would be great. I could quite happily pull the trigger on either (though the 35 needs saildrive seal sorting).

So close to a purhcase!

The 32 would get my vote based on the broker's details. Lot of expensive newish stuff. Only shortage as I see it is an electric anchor windlass which is a bit of a faff to retrofit, although a 10kg modern anchor is not too much for manual handling. You won't find the deeper draft particularly restrictive. The layout of the cockpit is good for single handing. It is CatA under the RCD.

 

[ylop]

The first (Bavaria 35): shallow keel (I'm on east coast of England), bit older, less recent upgrades but still good. I've called out the shallow keel here in case that becomes a factor based on:

The second (Bavaria 32) so a little under 33ft, has a long keel (1.75m), but is in tidier condition (I've viewed both) and very recent upgrades in so many areas.

Just for clarity in case anyone reading this is confused I think you mean deep keel rather than long keel.

My aims are to do some Faroe Island visits, English channel crossings, and perhaps (but for future) North Sea adventures. For those that have read earlier parts of this, I also like the idea of being able to single hand.

The faroes are a long way! But people have been in far smaller boats. The 32 is definitely manageable singlehanded although the bow is still far enough from the helm (she’s actually a little over 33’ LOA) that it needs careful planning.

ANY thoughts would be great. I could quite happily pull the trigger on either (though the 35 needs saildrive seal sorting).

Have you got a price for doing the sail drive? The 35 does come with a dinghy and engine. Even buying new though that is potentially less cost to add to the 32 than replacing a sail drive gaiter! The sails are also newer on the 32 so probably in better shape and will last longer before a big expense.

The only thing I could spot in the photos of the 32 is the helmsman’s seat is not shown. They do have a tendency to go overboard and don’t float so might be worth checking if it was just somewhere safe or is missing - if still available they will be expensive, although you could make something.

 

[john_morris_uk]

if you put a gun into my head and I had to choose between one of those, I’d say the 35 every time. Bavarias aren’t my favourite boats but they do a job and they have a particular following so it shouldn’t lose its value. It also seems to be extremely comprehensively fitted out.

 

[ashtead]

A few thoughts but it’s very personal
1 the 35 has a larger diesel -it might be the 19hp is fine on a lightweight 32 compared to the 34 at 4500kg we had but it really won’t punch tides helpfully but where you plan to sail might not so tidal ,
2 3 berth cabins as opposed to 2 -I guess not so important for you though but for a family 3 cabins attractive;
3 linear galley -much larger -the galley on a 32 like that is compact but might be more usefully placed than a linear version;
4 the 35 seems to have a u shaped saloon berth -this might rule out usage as a berth compared to linear bench cushions as in the 32 - I guess on 32 the backs lift up like on a 34 to create a wider single berth but is it same space on 35ft ?
5 as said is the seat missing on 32 in helm position?
6 no windlass on 32 ?as said might be a few ££ to have platform created that said we never had one on 34 but did regret and costs put us off retrofit but you get more fender space in bow;
7 tankage -I haven’t compared the respective numbers but the 29hp burns marginally more diesel I guess but perhaps 1 litre an hour more so not really issue;
8 a better known history on the 35 maybe?
9 I cannot really comment on shallow keel issue and impact to windward as we had deeper keel ,personally if in shallow waters might be advantage;
10 get a quote for saildrive gaiter replacement on 35 including lifting etc - maybe it could be done by current owners?
11 check rudder blades on both for osmosis
12 the 35 has more weight which I would value even with shallow keel and more space for all your kit you will accumulate.
Good luck

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Bavaria fan boy here .... buy bigger if possible. Boats shrink with use and experience and more mass is more comfort. I loved my Bav36 which I had for 11 years, now in a Bav44Vision and loving that even more. We sail 2 up, age mid 50s, both under 5ft 6, and I can single hand the 44. Need a solid below-deck autopilot though, and in-mast roller reefing is a godsend, have always had it, and it makes handling large sails in strong winds far easier IMO. Fair winds, make your choice and don't look back!

 

[reyes]

Have you got a price for doing the sail drive? The 35 does come with a dinghy and engine. Even buying new though that is potentially less cost to add to the 32 than replacing a sail drive gaiter! The sails are also newer on the 32 so probably in better shape and will last longer before a big expense.

I've seen an invoice from 2016 when it was last done and that's £1000+VAT. I will say that I have negotiated a reasonable amount off the asking price on the 35. A little on the 32 as well, but not as much.

if you put a gun into my head and I had to choose between one of those, I’d say the 35 every time. Bavarias aren’t my favourite boats but they do a job and they have a particular following so it shouldn’t lose its value. It also seems to be extremely comprehensively fitted out.

Thanks John. I must admit, I thought the 32, based on the amount of upgrades it's had, would be getting everybody's vote. So, how come you'd say the 35 in this case?

A few thoughts but it’s very personal
1 the 35 has a larger diesel -it might be the 19hp is fine on a lightweight 32 compared to the 34 at 4500kg we had but it really won’t punch tides helpfully but where you plan to sail might not so tidal ,
2 3 berth cabins as opposed to 2 -I guess not so important for you though but for a family 3 cabins attractive;
3 linear galley -much larger -the galley on a 32 like that is compact but might be more usefully placed than a linear version;
4 the 35 seems to have a u shaped saloon berth -this might rule out usage as a berth compared to linear bench cushions as in the 32 - I guess on 32 the backs lift up like on a 34 to create a wider single berth but is it same space on 35ft ?
5 as said is the seat missing on 32 in helm position?
6 no windlass on 32 ?as said might be a few ££ to have platform created that said we never had one on 34 but did regret and costs put us off retrofit but you get more fender space in bow;
7 tankage -I haven’t compared the respective numbers but the 29hp burns marginally more diesel I guess but perhaps 1 litre an hour more so not really issue;
8 a better known history on the 35 maybe?
9 I cannot really comment on shallow keel issue and impact to windward as we had deeper keel ,personally if in shallow waters might be advantage;
10 get a quote for saildrive gaiter replacement on 35 including lifting etc - maybe it could be done by current owners?
11 check rudder blades on both for osmosis
12 the 35 has more weight which I would value even with shallow keel and more space for all your kit you will accumulate.
Good luck

Very comprehensive, thank you.

All make sense, but a few comments to answer...

1. East coast is pretty tidal so it's a good point; I was assuming they'd be reasonably equal in that regard based on the 35 being 2 tonnes heavier?
3. I must admit, I prefer the arrangement of the 32. If that were in the 35, I'd be glad.
5. Confirmed by broker it's missing, you're right.
6. Didn't even think about that, it's a good point. I'm curious how much of a factor this is (and how much it'd be for that retrofit).
8. I haven't seen the history on the 35 but I'm told it's extensive. The guy who's responsible now is also a master mariner I'm told and has done bits himself. I do recall the broker stating it'd be worth a service though.
9. I spoke to someone else about this earlier (an RYA instructor who's familiar with the area I'd be in) and he's said a lot of marinas have now dredged for visitor moorings etc. so less of an issue with draft -- this is reassuring!
10. Already out the water currently as it's having some work (I'll state below to make it clear). I quoted another comment above relating to this).
11. 35, didn't check (survey would?), on 32 it sounds like this had a lot of work from the broker's statements.
12. I'm really curious how big an effect this extra weight has. My instinct was "heavier the better please!" for the sake of stability and being more comfortable, but I'm not sure on how big an expected difference it is between the 32 and 35.

Bavaria fan boy here .... buy bigger if possible. Boats shrink with use and experience and more mass is more comfort. I loved my Bav36 which I had for 11 years, now in a Bav44Vision and loving that even more. We sail 2 up, age mid 50s, both under 5ft 6, and I can single hand the 44. Need a solid below-deck autopilot though, and in-mast roller reefing is a godsend, have always had it, and it makes handling large sails in strong winds far easier IMO. Fair winds, make your choice and don't look back!

Thank you. Like I mention above, I'm curious the 32 isn't getting more because of the upgrades. I mentioned above at the bottom of the second quote answer, I'm curious how big a difference I'd expect between the 32 (just under 33ft according to the spec I saw, but >33 is mentioned here) compared to ~36ft.

FYI, things I've left out:
35:
- Apparently has heating also
- Had a leak due to a split pipe in the heads but apparently the collection of what leaked occurs in the bilge. I specifically asked this because I was curious whether any water ingress could occur anywhere. Apparently, no issue, and it's being repaired.
- Is on the hard now so no lift out required
- Cautious of: everything is close to an 8-10 year old mark. Am I going to get hit hard with upgrade costs or, should I sell for something bigger (for bigger cruises), am I going to get negotiated down heavily? Engine hours not known; some reassurance based on there being a lot of history (I'm told).

32:
- Owned by the current broker (who has been incredibly helpful) personally. He's the one who upgraded everything.
- Heating as well that's tested -- I don't think I'd want to be without that!
- No helm seat as mentioned above
- Cautious of: deep keel that could restrict, length and weight that means I'm more fearful of my life where I wouldn't be in the 35. Not aware of engine hours/history; dealer would service before letting go though. Also, started in front of me yesterday right away.

 

[ylop]

Can anyone confirm if the anchor roller / forestay arrangement on the 32 is “right”. It’s not the same as on my 32 - where the forestay is outside the roller like on the 35. But my fair leads are further aft so I think there must have been small design tweaks over the years (same J&J hull).

 

[ylop]

- Had a leak due to a split pipe in the heads but apparently the collection of what leaked occurs in the bilge. I specifically asked this because I was curious whether any water ingress could occur anywhere. Apparently, no issue, and it's being repaired.

What leaked? Does it smell? Any sign of corrosion?

- Cautious of: everything is close to an 8-10 year old mark. Am I going to get hit hard with upgrade costs or, should I sell for something bigger (for bigger cruises), am I going to get negotiated down heavily?

I think you are right to ask this. There’s no easy answer - the 35’ is cheaper because of this. It’s a little bit more dated (canvas doesn’t look as neat, stuff looks a bit older etc). But it comes with some actually useful stuff like a dinghy and engine, solar panels etc.

It’s purely personal preference - you might feel slightly more comfortable on the bigger one, you might feel slightly “better dressed” on the newer one.

Has your other half looked at them in person? I suspect that will make the decision - either for space or modernity.

 

[Tranona]

As I wrote earlier I know the 35 quite well plus I owned a virtually identical 37 for 15 years. I loved the 37 BUT most of the time was spent as a holiday boat in the Med where sailing is less demanding and living on board more important. When I got it back to UK I discovered the limitations of the shallow draft in heavy weather - not helped by poor sails, but 1.45m is really shallow compared with the standard keel. I chose it because I wanted to go through the French canals and accepted the compromise. It was a bit of a handful in my tight marina berth in Poole and would have been better with a bow thruster as it has a lot of windage. The interior though is very spacious and easy to live with, although the second aft cabin limits locker space in the cockpit.

The boat you are looking at has had a long hard life although as noted the one owner did keep it fairly up to date and it is in reasonable condition (by observation) for its age. However it has been for sale for over a year and the asking price has been reduced considerably, so maybe there is something about it that is not obvious on initial inspection. The seal replacement is straightforward. mine took 2 fitters a day so less than £1500 including parts (make sure the lower leg seals are also replaced).

Having said all that for a first boat I would still lean towards the 32 for 2 main reasons. First it seems in much better condition - unsurprising given the age difference and the recent expenditure. Second it will do everything you want. It is unlikely to be your last boat and you will learn a lot with it - and not frighten yourself!. There are several of the smaller Bavarias, 30,31,32 in our club and owners keep them a long time and go places - cross channel, down west and so on. They are very capable boats for this type of use. You should find it very economical (by boat standards) to run. They are well made, uncomplicated and easy to maintain. The 19hp is more than adequate. It will easily achieve hull speed. The 29hp was never offered as an option in the smaller boats simply because it was not necessary. The crossover point at which the larger engine worth it is with a displacement of about 4.4 tonnes, so for the 34 that ashstead had (which is actually near 36') it was the better choice. Likewise my later 33 at 5.4 tonnes had a 29hp. Fuel consumption with the 19hp is about 1.5l/h so the 90l tank gives up to 300 mile range. If and when you come to sell and move up, pretty sure you will find the 32 much easier to sell.

 

[ylop]

If and when you come to sell and move up, pretty sure you will find the 32 much easier to sell.

That is a good point. There’s always people here commenting on how nobody makes sub 35 ft boats anymore and the second hand market is full of tatty old examples. A well maintained 32 with lots of updates is going to get noticed.

 

[ashtead]

I do tend to agree on resale that having the newer boat will perhaps be more attractive to the next owner unless they particularly like the layout of the older 35. You could of course wait to see if any 34s come on market from 2001 but it is a larger vessel as said and heavier at 4.5k kg . We never looked at the 32 when we bought in 2001 though so never been on one though so it’s hard to compare.

 

[mattonthesea]

Just curious: how do they compare when heaving to?

 

[Tranona]

Just like any other deep fin keeled boat - not that heaving to is a common practice now! Takes cover from flack.

 

[Tranona]

I do tend to agree on resale that having the newer boat will perhaps be more attractive to the next owner unless they particularly like the layout of the older 35. You could of course wait to see if any 34s come on market from 2001 but it is a larger vessel as said and heavier at 4.5k kg . We never looked at the 32 when we bought in 2001 though so never been on one though so it’s hard to compare.

Things were rather confusing in the 1999-2002 period at Bavaria as the new factory was coming on stream and new models coming out every year. The 32 replaced the short lived 31 in 2001 model year and was a new design with over 30cm more beam on similar waterline giving more space inside and greater form stability. It was the first model to have the new plainer interior with lighter veneers and rows of lockers under the side decks giving more storage. The 34 was an altogether larger boat, longer, wider and beam carried further aft to allow twin aft cabins for the charter market. That was my first choice when buying in 2000/1 but there was an 18 month waiting list so I went for the 37 which was running out and well priced at little more than the 34. If I recall rightly the 32 was around £8k cheaper than the 34 at the time.

 

[reyes]

Well all, the 32 it is. Bought subject to survey. I think (hope) it's the right choice!

My rationale is very much along the lines of: what exactly do I want the extra size of the boat for? Doing long passages that the 32 (at ~33ft) is not capable of? I'm not convinced that I'd be in a situation where that extra bit of size makes it as the purchase an absolute necessity.

In the future, should I decide that I want to start doing bigger passages, I wouldn't then be upgrading to a 35, I'd be going for something bigger still. In which case, I'm hoping I have a good window of time to enjoy the boat and if it is the case that something bigger is needed, then based on the recentness of upgrades, I'd hope the value would be retained reasonably. The 35 concerns me on that front, and I return back to the question of "so what exactly am I getting from it?".

There we are. Thank you kindly for all of the info, it absolutely helped tremendously.

Very exciting -- first non-dinghy sailboat (pardon, yacht!)

 

[Tranona]

Well done. hope the survey goes well. It should be a good test passage taking it to the east coast. Usual advice is to do a bit locally first to check everything out and then maybe engage a delivery skipper to go with you. Lot to be learned about your new boat doing it that way.

 

[reyes]

Well done. hope the survey goes well. It should be a good test passage taking it to the east coast. Usual advice is to do a bit locally first to check everything out and then maybe engage a delivery skipper to go with you. Lot to be learned about your new boat doing it that way.

Thank you, and 100% agree. I've lined up an RYA instructor to do the delivery with me, and also squeeze some additional tuition in there to make the most of it!

I have must admit, the broker Parker Adams (Andrew specifically who I've been dealing with) has been great. Curious if otherd have had dealings with them also...

 

[wonkywinch]

Parker Adams recently took over Flexisail and I've had the pleasure of meeting him a couple of times. They seem to have a nice reputable business set up.