First Boat - North West England

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Simon__

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I went on a couple of sailing trips last year, including a comp crew course and I've well and truly caught the bug. I'm now looking into purchasing my own modest boat (26 - 28ft bilge keeler) for around ~£10k for weekend trips and a couple of longer cruises around the Irish Sea and NW Scotland over the summer. Being an amateur I'm looking for some advice around how realistic my plans are and how much it may cost:

1) I live on the NW coast which doesn't seem to be the best cruising area (River Alt would be a possible site to moor but a longer drive may give better sailing). I'm thinking the best bet will be a mooring around the Menai Strait / Beaumaris. How much should I expect to pay for a mooring? n.b marinas will be beyond my means.
2) Is it realistic to find a bilge keeler in "turn key" condition within my budget (reasonably new engine, sails, rigging etc.)?
3) Could such a boat safely cross the Irish Sea with an inexperienced skipper / crew ( currently working towards my Day Skipper ticket)?
4) What's the best way to find a boat; are most boats advertised online?

Thanks in advance
 
Welcome to the forum

Can't help with the mooring question, but hopefully others will be along who can.

Yes, quite possible to buy a good boat of that size with that budget. Look for one with recent new engine and good sails as these are the two expensive items to replace. Modern electronics are useful but not essential, The bilge keel requirement will be a constraint and probably not necessary unless you are limited by a drying mooring. Most boats of the size and type you are thinking about are suitable for crossing the Irish Sea.

Try to buy a boat close to where you intend sailing as moving a boat from another area can be expensive. You may find some boats in brokers although probably most will be for sale privately and advertised in places such as ebay or Apolloduck. Also worth going round the clubs and yards in the N wales area as some boats don't get advertised widely.

Good luck with your search.
 
I used to cross the Irish Sea in a GK 24, (24ft and very small), then a 33ft Legend, (bigger and more comfortable), then a Nicholson 31, cute and reasonably comfortable.

The GK24 was moored at Abersoch, so Howth and Dun Laoghaire were the usual destinations.

The Nicholson was kept at Fleetwood in Summer and Glasson in winter - worked quite well. Isle of Man and Whitehaven were the usual trips, with the occasional trip to Dublin Bay, and One to Kircudbright.
 
I started my sailing with a Sadler 25 fin keel which I kept on a swinging mooring in the Menai Straits in between Menai Bridge and Beaumaris. It was a steep learning curve for the novice that I was at the time. You have to learn to work the tides but its a great place for sailing and gives you access to Anglesey, West Wales, Irish Sea, Isle of Man, Ireland, west coast of Scotland and Lakes. I certainly ranged all over from Lundy Island and Pembrokeshire in the south, across to Ireland and even a circumnavigation of it. Up to Scotland, Isle of Man and the Lakes
My swinging mooring was maintained by one of the local mooring contractors, I owned the tackle, bought from the contractor and I had to have a mooring licence from Anglesey council Cost a few years ago (2014) about £200 pa for licence, roughly the same for maintenance depending what if anything needed replacing and as far as I remember £300-400 for initial set up buying the tackle.
There are moorings for rent by Port Dinorwic but I feel more limited in when you can get away and back due to the Swellies and tides. There used to be a waiting list for mooring but dont know state nowadays. One finale point -do consider other boats than just bilge keelers. I certainly didnt feel constrained about where I could go with a fin keeler. All the best
 
For the boat I would get a Westerly bilge Keeler. Pick one with a decent engine. It’s all about condition not age. There are shed loads of older boats around so don’t be afraid to make low offers.

For the mooring try Conwy harbour. You will probably find it easier to park on the Deganwy side so pick one over there.

I sailed round the Uk in my Westerly 25 and kept her in Conwy for a few seasons- lovely part of the world.
 
Yes I agree look at a Westerley Centur (sp?), they are right in your price range and are a well found boat. If you look at last seasons Keep Turning Left videos you can see Dylan Winter saining one up the east coast of Scotland.
 
1) I live on the NW coast which doesn't seem to be the best cruising area (River Alt would be a possible site to moor but a longer drive may give better sailing). I'm thinking the best bet will be a mooring around the Menai Strait / Beaumaris. How much should I expect to pay for a mooring? n.b marinas will be beyond my means.

You are in striking distance of north wales and isle of man, both brilliant cruising destinations, and ireland is not much further on. Loads to explore, you'll have a great time.

2) Is it realistic to find a bilge keeler in "turn key" condition within my budget (reasonably new engine, sails, rigging etc.)?

Yes, 10k is a very healthy budget for what you want. A centaur would be one of the most common ones you will come across, rock solid boats. Whatever you get, make sure it's not the original engine. You want something recently reengined, and preferably with recent sails.

3) Could such a boat safely cross the Irish Sea with an inexperienced skipper / crew ( currently working towards my Day Skipper ticket)?

Oh yes, as long as you understand navigation and tides to actually get there and not be taken to places/times you want to avoid

4) What's the best way to find a boat; are most boats advertised online?
Online, apollo duck, boatshed, newsnow, ebay, gumtree....there are loads of boats for sale. But there are loads of old rubbish out there too, look carefully.
 
As you can see from my tag line I am North Wales based and have sailed and cruised this area for nearly half a century!

Where to be?

If you intend ONLY longer cruises in the Irish Sea get a mooring at Holyhead. I think the either the sailing club or my link below is the best to contact for finding out costs and availability.

If you want to start out with shorter weekend destinations then a mooring in the strait is best. Conway is an option but is more limiting due to the long distance and tidal limitations to access and the prevailing wind direction.

Moorings are available and IMHO best places for a bilge keeler are either half tide moorings in Beaumaris bay (not sure but pretty rare to be able to get one.) If you want to be convinced this is your area then advice from the NWVenturers YC would be best but alternatives are available at Menai Bridge and Holyhead via the Angelsey Council.Many from these moorings have now moved from there to Y Felinheli where Port Dinorwic Marina now offer mooring and winter lift out and storage for a fixed £1600 pa.(this includes a launch service to all tide moorings.
Some have found that with a smaller yacht it still pays to use the Caernarfon Harbour Trust moorings. These are still available but without the winter lift and store . This can usually be found at a decent rate either at ABC on Gallows Point, Beaumaris, Dickies at Port Penryn Bangor or at Dinas boat yard in Y Felinheli. I am sure they will each give you a rate per meter for winter lift and storage.

Alternatively Y Felinheli sailing club will store small cruisers on their car park over winter for a very reasonable fee if you are a member.I am not sure about a size limitation . They have a growing small cruiser fleet and may have some half tide moorings?

We started off yachting in this area with a 24 foot lift keel boat and were happy to join in cruising in company with ANY of the local boats and yacht clubs around the Irish sea. This was more akin to camping and we have now upgraded to give us a bit more comfort in our old age.

Once you get to know the Strait there is very little to fear and there really is no major worry about access at any state of tide especially from the North. Angelsey being an Island gives extensive shelter with the wind in any direction which virtually allows you to sail somewhere locally any weekend in any wind. In my experience and having tried them the same claim can not be made of Conway, Abersoch, Pwllheli or Holyhead.

Some useful links.
http://www.royalwelshyachtclub.org.uk/
http://www.caernarfonharbour.org.uk/moorings/
http://themarinegroup.co.uk/marinas/port-dinorwic/
http://www.pdsc.org.uk/membership
http://www.anglesey.gov.uk/leisure/maritime-services/ports-and-harbours/moorings/
http://www.nwvyc.org.uk/
http://nwcc.info/
http://www.conwy.gov.uk/en/Resident.../Assets/documents/2017-2018-Charges-Sheet.pdf

https://www.abcpm.co.uk/
http://www.dinasboatyard.com/
http://www.dickies.co.uk/boat-services/berthingmoorings/

Local Brokers
http://www.partnershipyachtbrokers.co.uk/ Speak toJackie they cover a wide area in the North West and Wales.

http://www.dougedwardsyachts.com/

Best bargains to be had off Ebay! Nothing showing very local at the moment though!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...gn=-1&saslc=1&_salic=3&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50

There are two closed facebook groups that operate in our area organising social events, meet ups, adhoc sailing in company and giving local advice and support (FREE) in addition to the above sailing and yacht clubs...


Steve
 
A fully comprehensive response by Steve, as always ?

Nothing much to add other than offering encouragement to the OP. The Menai and adjacent waters is full of “amateur” sailors.....you’ll be in good company ?

A Menai mooring seems like a good idea, there are some lovely spots as Steve has reviewed.

I’d avoid the Conwy River. It’s fairly restricted access to open water and runs like a train, important if you are thinking of rowing out to a swinging mooring.

A Holyhead SC mooring (if available) may suit your needs. All states access albeit care with Carmel Head and The Stacks tidal gates when rounding. You’re only likely to get the wind & tide wrong once! A bucking bronco ride springs to mind.

Boat capability to cross the Irish Sea is more of a perception issue, that and your attitude to risk. With planning and in the right conditions most things are possible. Personally, I’m glad to read that you’ve taken some RYA training. A friend of mine has crossed the Atlantic twice. Once in an 18 ft sail boat, second time he rowed across.

I certainly wouldn’t be fixated on buying a bilge keeler.

Best of luck, we look forward to seeing you on the water.
 
Simon__ said:
I went on a couple of sailing trips last year, including a comp crew course and I've well and truly caught the bug. I'm now looking into purchasing my own modest boat (26 - 28ft bilge keeler) for around ~£10k for weekend trips and a couple of longer cruises around the Irish Sea and NW Scotland over the summer. Being an amateur I'm looking for some advice around how realistic my plans are and how much it may cost:

1) I live on the NW coast which doesn't seem to be the best cruising area
Click to expand...

Not sure about that, I am based in Germany and have chartered a couple of times out of Conwy. I am sure I've only seen a fraction of the area, but really enjoyed the cruising, with the Menai Strait and IoM, and found it a very decent cruising ground, will certainly come back.
 
Speak to the yards and Marinas around the Northwest and ask what's for sale. The ones I know (yards) are Dickies in Bangor, ABC in Beaumaris, Bluepoint in Liverpool.
 
I spent a week in Holyhead Harbour on the GK24 in the late 1970’s. Very pleasant cruising around the immediate bay, and lots of options further afield.
 
I once kept a Hurley 22 on a swinging mooring to the left of Bangor pier as you look at the island. There is a boatyard there (or was) run my a chap called Jonathan who is probably dead now but he was a super nice bloke and it was pretty cheap, about 250 (15 years ago that is).
Then had something bigger at Holyhead sailing club for few more years which was a lot more refined with the club launch and club house. The marina is useful for loading up too. You already have the urge to go to Ireland and its very straightforward from Holyhead. South stack and Carmel head are ok in the sort of weather you would choose to go out in, I only had one misadventure at south stack in the 4 years I was there.
 
As a Newbie please be aware that the boat can come with liabilities. For example if last years mooring fees have not been paid. Check where she has been moored and ask if all debts are cleared. Don’t let this put you off but make sure you ask. The cost of insurance will also be relevant and depending if you want comprehensive or third party you will probably need a survey which will add to the cost. All older boats will likely get a long list of recommendations from the survey, in most cases you will be able to sort these out over a period of months and years providing a great way to get to know your boat .
Make sure you use the summer for sailing and winter for maintenance. Start of gently and you can have pleasure for life from boat ownership.
 
I have recently bought a boat located at Port Penrhyn (Bangor) and am hoping to explore Anglesey, and make the occasional trip to Ireland/IoM. I would also class myself as a distinct amateur having done RYA dinghy courses some years ago, and with more recent experience being bareboat charters in the Med.

As I have never sailed in the area and will be new to the boat, I was planning to contact the local Sailing School / Yacht Club and arrange a day with a local skipper/instructor. Does this sound like a sensible idea? Completing Day Skipper will be the next step...

Thanks Steve (TSB240) for your very informative post - It would be great to join up with some local cruisers for a few trips (especially when learning about the area). Would you be able to post the name of the FB groups you referred to (or DM me if you prefer)? Maybe we should have a 'North West' sub forum on here? :-)

Also - thanks JimC for the link to Second Chance Sailing - Had not come across them before. The boat I have bought makes several appearances in their films! (on the hard at Dickies).

Tom
 
Tom

I would be glad to pass on the details. I will PM some more personal info so you can make use of it how you wish..

Dont worry about classing yourself as a complete amateur. Learning passage making of the Strait is pretty easy.

Once you have had an escort through the Swellies at LOW Slack you will know how little there is to actually bump into at especially at high tide!

Both Andy (Wilco Sailing) and Frank (http://www.northwalespowerandsail.co.uk/) who operate the two private sailing school boats out of Y Felinheli would be good contacts.

There is an initiative being started by two of the local yacht/sailing clubs to get more people on their boats and out and about on the Strait. Cruising in company or crewing options are part of the strategy. The target is for those starting out later in life, possibly purchased a boat, and who have reservations of making their first Navigation around Anglesey. I would be glad to Pm info to any interested parties.

Steve
 
I live in the opposite corner of the country but I recommend that you do the same as me when I bought a cruising boat.

I drove to every possible mooring area within range and spent a couple of hours in each, talking to owners. I discussed costs, availability, tides, dinghy storage, winter storage, haul in/out, club facilities etc etc.

I must have visited at least 20 different places but it was worth it in helping me choose.
 
Thanks Steve, and appreciate the PM.

Simon - best of luck with finding a boat and keep us posted. The boat I have just bought is a 31' bilge keeler and was well within your budget. Currently at Dickies, Port Penrhyn. I don't really have much to compare with locally, but the experience I have had with Dickies so far has been very good indeed.


Tom
 
Chewie said:
I have recently bought a boat located at Port Penrhyn (Bangor)

Tom
Click to expand...

Congratulations.

I winter there. My boat is in her cradle in the position shown at about 8min 30 sec on JimC's YouTube video. By the travelhoist, about where the trimaran is, next to the round building. Skylark.

When do you plan to launch? Is she ready to go or does she need any work? Many people launch around Easter time so the yard starts to come out of hibernation in March.
 
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