First Boat - North West England

[Swanrad2]

We love Beaumaris and North West Venturers Yacht Club (NWVYC) - they do quite a lot of weekend jaunts around Anglesey and the guys there know the local waters and share knowledge freely. Good bunch. We moored in Conwy for years and the downside is once you are out, you are out. Beaumaris on the other hand makes a quick couple of hours sailing possible. I think the mooring situation is a little easier than it used to be as well, contact the club through the website, somone there will know of somone. The joining fee for the NWVYC is worth every penny, by the way, the facilities are excellent even ignoring the cruises in company.

It is (or at least was when we were last looking) easier to get a morring for the bilge keeler, although you do lose performance. We have a Centaur and she is more seaworthy than I am. The day skipper ticket will give you enough knowledge (with local know-how) to get to loads of lovely local anchorages and harbours on a day sail. Certainly enough to keep you busy for a year or two whilst you learn your trade and get ready to spread your wings. Getting to know your boat and its engine are best done locally anyway. Simple skills like changing an impeller, bleeding a diesel engine, oil changes and just using the stuff that has been bolted to your boat takes time. The confidence to start doing more complicated things also grows with time and isn't taught at night school.

Back to the 'couple of hours sailing' thing for a moment. The benefit of this is it is a fairly long drive over to Anglesey, we became a little frustrated in Conwy because when we could get there, often either the tides were wrong or the weather was. There are far fewer occasions in Beaumaris when we just can't go sailing somewhere and the bay is lovely in it's own right. You will learn more about your boat and sailing pootling about locally than crossing to the Isle of Man for example.

Apologies for two things 1) if this post is written a little randomly, the laptop I am using won't let me scroll back 2) if I am coming across as a bit evangelical but this was the best sailing decision I have made so far.

 

[stevd]

+1 for the moorings at Holyhead.

After being in your shoes a few years ago, looking for a bilge keeler of similar size, I ended up going for a fin keel which I haven't regretted in the slightest. I wouldnt be too concerned about getting a bilge keel boat - this will also open up the opportunities for you.

The Holyhead sailing club moorings are good value, and you dont have to worry about maintaining them. There is also the club launch service so you dont have to dinghy out to the boat. Holyhead is definitely a good place to start, 24 hr access to the bay, and sheltered behind the huge wall so no strong currents to deal with whilst picking up a mooring.

 

[Chewie]

Hi David,

Thanks! Am hoping to launch mid March in plenty of time for some Easter sailing. Seems to be in pretty good order, despite being out of the water for some time. Want to get the engine checked over before she goes in.

Hopefully see you around

Tom

 

[Simon__]

Thank you all for your help, some brilliant advice and a lot of leads for me to follow up. Steve's comprehensive post and the SecondChanceSailing video were particularly helpful. It's also reassuring to know a twin keeler isn't as important as I thought as, although the centaur is a boat I'm seriously considering, I think my heart is more set on a boat like the Vega.

I've contacted the NWVYC as it seems like they may be the best route for N.Wales although I'm still toying with the idea of basing myself on the river alt as this would only be a 20 minute drive as opposed to 2h 15 to Beaumaris (with good traffic!). However, I think sounding them out by visiting as David suggests is a good plan. Must admit all of my research so far has been online and I need to start visiting yards in the coming weeks if I want to make the most of the year.

 

[armchairsailor]

I've not been back in 5 years, but ABC were always pushing to build a marina next to their boatyard - dunno what happened to that one... Also Porth Penrhyn was on the up the, and there are other marinas/ harbours at Caernarfon that might be accessible at different states of tide. I would think that the deep moorings opposite Gallows Point to Beaumaris will be heavily subscribed. That said, there are a LOT of moorings off the Gazelle and Bangor, so I'd imagine there will be something if you look, go hand around Dickies/ ABC/ Gallows Point and get to know the locals.

I spent my childhood in those boatyards, playing in the puddles. Cor, this thread is making me nostalgic...

 

[Davy_S]

although the centaur is a boat I'm seriously considering, I think my heart is more set on a boat like the Vega.

The Vega is a great boat, they have a good owners club, Steve Birch runs it, he used to post on here, it would be worth having a look as they list some of the members boats for sale and also supply spares and upgrades for the Vega.http://www.albinvega.co.uk/

 

[Mataji]

Where’s Steve Yates when he’s needed. He’s from Keswick and asked a very similar question 2 or 3 years ago. Check out what he’s done since.

 

[GrahamM376]

For the boat I would get a Westerly bilge Keeler. Pick one with a decent engine. It’s all about condition not age. There are shed loads of older boats around so don’t be afraid to make low offers.

For the mooring try Conwy harbour. You will probably find it easier to park on the Deganwy side so pick one over there.

I sailed round the Uk in my Westerly 25 and kept her in Conwy for a few seasons- lovely part of the world.

When UK based, we had moorings in Conwy for around 14 years. North Wales Cruising Club run water taxi to the moorings and the club is a good place to get info as well as participate in "cruises in company". Centaur is an ideal first boat for the Irish Sea but, if you can stretch the budget to a Berwick even better. Beware of drying moorings there as tide can be running at quite a lick when boats lift and bump the keels around 180 degrees across hard sand.

 

[Yellow Ballad]

I think my heart is more set on a boat like the Vega.

If you're after a Vega I've heard Lizzy G, Denis Gormans well sorted Jester Challenge Vega is on the market well within your budget.

As for mooring, I was looking at North Wales a few years back, if I were to do it I would either do Pwllheli outer harbour on the trots (as they're well priced compared to the marina) but probably Holyhead, it's only a bit further on but better access and sailing. I had a friend in the marina which was really nice but I would suggest you joined the sailing club and get some knowledge from the other members. Also as your so far away you may find they will keep an eye on the boat. I have a 2 hour drive to get to my boat in South Wales but the club I'm in is great and always keep an eye on the boat for me and help out when I have things that need doing. Probably the best thing I did when buying my first boat.

 

[peteK]

If you dont want to travel far you can put your own mooring down anywhere around Wirral for free,Hoylake,Thurstaston or Heswall,and when you get bored with that move too North Wales.

 

[Laysula]

We spent many happy years sailing out of Conwy both on moorings and in the Marina. We then moved to Holyhead and felt that the extra distance driving was well worth it. We would have considered the Menai straits but at the time there were no moorings or marina spaces available. Our current boat we bought in Dartmouth with the intention of sailing back up to North wales but we felt that the sailing grounds were worth again driving the extra distance. ( At the time we were living in Burton upon Trent, so a four hour drive). Not only did we find the sailing great but we liked the area and people so much that we moved here last year and now the boat is just a short walk from our house in Brixham marina.

 

[Simon__]

Thanks again for the helpful replies. I've been in contact with my local club who are on the River Alt and it looks a viable option - access to water ~2 hours of high tide. This would allow day sails after work (tide permitting) but would be more of a slog for weekend sailing - 45NM to reach Anglesey (though not unreasonable). There would also be a preference for a bilge or lifting keel as the site isn't well suited to a Vega - I've been advised that even with legs it may not be advisable as if caught beam on the tidal surge in the narrow channel may excert too much pressure on the legs and cause them to fail. Has anyone experience with using beaching legs on a drying mooring in a river, or similar?

I've also been in contact with Mike from the Vega association who has been very helpful, although the brokerage isn't currently operating. So this, along with legs issue, the fact the Vegas listed (few and far between) don't appear to have recent engines, may have put that one to bed.

In terms of the overall boat search, I've got a couple of viewings booked in for later this month but I'm really struggling to find affordable 26 - 28ft boats with rigging, sails & engine all replaced within the last 10 years.. Am I being unrealistic to expect a modernised, turn key for ~7k? Have I chosen the wrong time to look - would the best examples have sold at the end of last season? Am I looking in the wrong places; are the best deals not found online but hidden away in the yards? Or should I be ignoring valuations, viewing boats and then offering what I feel it's worth regardless of asking price? I'm keen not to be a time waster but at the same time some boats appear to have been for sale, unused, at high valuations for years - I've ignored these so far and learned querying asking price prior to viewing is a sure way to be ignored (if Troon Euroyachts is anything to go by) but wonder what others experiences have been with boats which are valued high and possibly not really for sale

 

[lpdsn]

- I've ignored these so far and learned querying asking price prior to viewing is a sure way to be ignored (if Troon Euroyachts is anything to go by) but wonder what others experiences have been with boats which are valued high and possibly not really for sale

You look then make an offer. They either say yes or no. You then either walk away or follow the age-old technique of haggling. You can of course sound out the broker a bit face to face as you're talking and viewing the boat - hard to see the expression on his face over the phone.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

You should be able to get a reasonable 26 footer for £6k, giving you a bit to sort it. (lifejacket, flares, dsc radio, simple gps) I favour bilge keels as unless in soft mud moorings or non-drying moorings as legs can never be trusted on sand if there is currents, and there are may nice creeks t explore with shallower draft. Nothing to stop a well found 26 footer getting to Ireland or indeed anywhere else though the motion is of course more violent in bad weather than a 31 footer.

Some boats you see will be a heap of sh*t, some wont. Think about engines when buying as that is £4k to replace. Rigging needs replacing every 10 years at probably about £1000 and sails similar but probably will mostly be good enough for now. I would recommend a Centaur as very sound and steady if a touch slow. Avoid Achilles (triple keel) if you like comfort though they are a fast solid boat.

Once you own a boat you soon learn as you extend your cruising range and you can always change moorings if the first does not suit

 

[GrahamM376]

Some boats you see will be a heap of sh*t, some wont. Think about engines when buying as that is £4k to replace. Rigging needs replacing every 10 years at probably about £1000 and sails similar but probably will mostly be good enough for now. I would recommend a Centaur as very sound and steady if a touch slow.

Whatever boat is chosen, get a survey, it could save a lot of grief. Some Centaurs kept on mud or half tide moorings have had keel problems. Most should have been reinforced by now but worth checking.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Whatever boat is chosen, get a survey, it could save a lot of grief. Some Centaurs kept on mud or half tide moorings have had keel problems. Most should have been reinforced by now but worth checking.

Very hard for surveyor to absolutely sure about keel fixings with dropping them. £98 per hour to hoist it at my local boatyard. Hull cracking around the keel will show though. Unless afloat then very hard to check engine so most surveyors wont. Their argument is that failed engine wont sink a boat, my opinion as that anyone shorthanded, or on Irish Sea passages, particularly relative beginner needs a decent engine. It can even be the difference between Pan Pan / Mayday, and "well that was bumpy/awkward, fancy a drink down the clubhouse?"

 

[GrahamM376]

Unless afloat then very hard to check engine so most surveyors wont. Their argument is that failed engine wont sink a boat, my opinion as that anyone shorthanded, or on Irish Sea passages, particularly relative beginner needs a decent engine.

On way from Hamble to Conwy in January (delivery trip, just bought the Centaur, two on board) engine packed up coming out of Falmouth, decided not to turn back and sailed the rest of the way non stop. Quite a lumpy and cold trip!

 

[oldmanofthehills]

On way from Hamble to Conwy in January (delivery trip, just bought the Centaur, two on board) engine packed up coming out of Falmouth, decided not to turn back and sailed the rest of the way non stop. Quite a lumpy and cold trip!

Thats a long long trip, best part of 250 miles. With fair winds thats fine if you dont mind 50 hours continuous and have 2 aboard, but had you had wind turn on the nose your options for shelter you could get to without an engine would have been limited, and the Irish Sea is the lumpiest. I might do it now but hardly suitable for someone still learning the ropes. Sails for down wide engine for bad weather upwind or if needing to get job finished.

 

[Rosa]

We spent many happy years sailing out of Conwy both on moorings and in the Marina. We then moved to Holyhead and felt that the extra distance driving was well worth it. We would have considered the Menai straits but at the time there were no moorings or marina spaces available. Our current boat we bought in Dartmouth with the intention of sailing back up to North wales but we felt that the sailing grounds were worth again driving the extra distance. ( At the time we were living in Burton upon Trent, so a four hour drive). Not only did we find the sailing great but we liked the area and people so much that we moved here last year and now the boat is just a short walk from our house in Brixham marina.

For many years we kept our boat in Fleetwood marina. After a change in circumstances I moved her down to Brixham where we had family connections. Spent 9 happy seasons on a swinging mooring in the outer harbour. A great sailing area for pottering or going further afield.

Boat and I are now in Cornwall but I still love Brixham.

 

[claymore]

Hi Rosa - good to read that you are still around. My daughter has friends in Brixham and we stayed there for a few days last year. Really lovely place and the sailing looked great. Rather hilly compared with the flatlands of Fleetwood!