First Boat need advice pls - Range 45-50fly

[MapisM]

I vowed that no one on this forum would buy one!

Well, you can count on my support on that. :encouragement:

Sorry sam.mooney, but I don't think to be alone in smelling a rat when a very first post is a blatant plug for a boat brand.
Mind, I would tell the same if you were praising the build quality of Royal Huisman, let alone Galeon...

Regardless, welcome to the asylum!

 

[markc]

Sorry sam.mooney, but I don't think to be alone in smelling a rat when a very first post is a blatant plug for a boat brand.

Regardless, welcome to the asylum!

You are most certainly not alone!

 

[Dragut]

Quite common to add extra equipment to a used boat when you buy it. Most decent brokers have contacts who can do the work. However some things (like aircon) can be very difficult and expensive to retrofit compared with factory fit.

When looking at used boats and prices you need to factor in what you need to do with the boat to get it how you want it as well as getting it to the location you want. However, unless you intend keeping it a long time you might want to avoid spending too much as the money you spend will not be reflected in the value or the price if you sell in a year or two.

Hi Tranona,

I will keep the boat at least five years as time goes fast and of course in the hypothetic situation that the boat satisfies. Will have a lot of talking and chitchat about it coming months so I will see where and how it ends. As I found out there are too many possibilities to adjust a secondhand boat and if a professional installation will made and guarantees given, that's something to consider. One month back I would never think buying secondhand, still I'm more into a brand new fresh boat customized but who knows, delivery time price and unforeseen things could change that view.

 

[Dragut]

A gyro stabiliser would be rare as they are very expensive.
If you want air con it would be best to look for a boat with aircon already fitted. It is the same with a bow thruster , for example.
Electronic navigation kit is relatively easy to change (not necessarily cheap).
Upholstery not a problem.
As said .. most brokerages will be able to arrange any updates.

https://www.seakeeper.com/seakeeper_products/seakeeper-5/

I think buying the gryo and finding a professional yard helping you with the installation will be fine. But the gyro should fit and the boat should have available and suitable place for it. For example Galeon has almost for all the lines the gryo option except for the 460 (my alternative), maybe because there is not a suitable place? I don't know.

Going for a sec hand I would do only the gryo, gen and the aircon get installed if needed eventually together with some upholstery refurbishment. You know, with the right brokerage it will go all perfect, but when it goes wrong you get sick and hate your self.

 

[Dragut]

Have you been to the show in Cannes ,early Sept ?
A lot of chiose and a lot get sold .
Re retro fit
It's all v easy I have had a few bits done .There is an advantage to buying an allready durable marque 2nd hand and doing a mini refit .
1- it's not fallen to bits
2- you can update to your spec ----exactly

Take for example Air con --- factory fit may be cheaper to instal ( for abvious reasons ) self contained units from a big American supplier in each cabin ,taking up space .But they are niosey. Incredibly niosey --and you will need it on to get a decent nights kip in the med .
So all that stuff about "tender garage , reverse seats "means nothing if you all are permanently grumpy -coz you cannot kip on it properly .

There are some whisper quiet chiller systems where to machinery is notin the living spaces - with quiet air handlers .
Galley appliances can be up specced too easily along with Nav gear .Once you have used it and dicided what you want .

If you have a "sea sicky " crew ? ---- I detect ,then ride or seaworthy ness starts to creep into the equation .
Here you need to drill down deeper in to the deadrise , displacement , engine position .
If it is a factor ---- absolutely test drive before you commit .
I took my wife out of Monaco last year on a pre arranged test drive of a Riva 52 in what we considered /flat ish seas

The look on her face as it slammed at moderate speed -- killed the deal ,the sales team knew it within 5 mins .
Tied up in the Marina or @ a show ,or online --ticked lot of boxes

No matter how big the fridge ,plush the fit n finish ---all blown by poor ride .

It's just you mention 500-1000 mile jaunt,s that alerts me tell you they all ride differently some better than others .

But they all feel nice at boat shows tied up .
Cannes -you can go for rides ,easy to arrange its that type of show .

No actually I never been there, I was looking to go to Genoa but now I changed my mind, will book for Cannes. Each year I know the fair in Cannes but never made an attempt to go, right now I will definitely go and check each alternative carefully again.

There are chilled water aircons from e.g. Dometic or something. If installed correctly all should be fine finally, if there is no silent aircon provided ex factory I could skip the option and get installed a better version later. For sec hand the samen there. Good to hear that Nav options could be changed afterwards as well.

How about the test drives, can I make an appointment there realtime or should I get in touch and make an appointment before arriving there?

 

[Dragut]

i would second going to Cannes. They have the largest selection of 40ft-60ft boats anywhere. Azimut, Ferretti, Absolute, Prestige, Princess, etc, etc. Loads of boats that are not at Southampton or London. Really does help in selecting what you want. I did Cannes first and then placed the order at Southampton.

To fit a gyro for a 50ft is around £60k - to give an idea of budget.

Hi Tony,

I will go to Cannes in September. I am sure it will give me a lot of better view and clarification about the differences. Just talking with some owners or sellers about the sound issue (gen, aircon), rolling, delivery times, quality aspects, try and ride and of course what will be the discount on a brand new boat vs. the benefit I'll get by buying secondhand.

http://dev.seakeeper.com/seakeeper_products/seakeeper-5/

Here is the seekeeper 5, could be fitted on a 46fly and the price 30,-k USD will make it 27,- k EUR and I think for 35-40k EUR it will be fitted so that's ok for me. On the optionlist for the Galeon 500fly you pay 50,-k EUR so appr. the same after all.

Why did you bought in Southampton? Was it just because you needed more time after Cannes or a specific reason?

 

[Dragut]

Dragut, I think most of us here wish we had your problem! To your list can I add the Benneteau Swift Trawler 50, a boat which I've got one eye on (because the wife poked me in the other one).
As for the Galeon, I have to say sorry mate but you have to rule that one out. The Galeon ladies were very rude to me at a boat show and I vowed that no one on this forum would buy one!

Hi Bouba,

thank you. The trawlers actually are not what I really like, I prefer the "sports boat" look. The only trawler I like until now is the Azimut Magellano and I'm not sure even it's a trawler type .

At first I was a little bit confused about it all, but right now I enjoy the period and take all my time to get more knowledge. I'm excited I can patiently search for a right boat without rushing it and so many friends here helping me with some advices. Before I was just thinking going to a fair, drinking a coffee and entering the boat and a price chitchat would be enough to choose one. But I see there is much more then that.

Honestly, the ladies so rude is really irritating and I would definitely think the same. On the other hand the companies select some ladies provided by the fair services who speak English to represent them. Sometimes they're not lucky because getting the "wrong types" also off-color because all that attention they get from the male vistors. What you think?

 

[jrudge]

Portofino. I can't really believe you are recommending to retro fit air con and to suggest the manufacturers all fit stand alone units as opposed to chilled water and air handlers is just plain incorrect.

Sure some will but the majority of new boats in this size won't.

Likewise retrofit of generators. This is just going to cause agravation and a big bill. Get factory fit.

Do take a look at the absolute 50. Nice boat. Paddy Harrison of 5 star is the Mallorca agent and is helpful.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

As for the Galeon, I have to say sorry mate but you have to rule that one out. The Galeon ladies were very rude to me at a boat show and I vowed that no one on this forum would buy one!

If you want to look at Galeon I can pass you through the right channels. Galeon has improved a lot in the 2000-2010 time lapse. I have seen some of the early 2000s 330 models with various problem to its engine installation and risers and owners fighting it with Volvo and Volvo giving the blame to Galeon, to being very impressed by the 640, which according to a yard I work with is build as good as a Ferretti 590 and better then a Princess 62/64 or Azimut of the same length.
I think some of the design solutions on the new 460 and 500 models (opening cockpit etc) even though innovative are a bit overkill for my taste.
Still they deserve praise for doing it on a flybridge boat even though some builders from Italy have been using similar solutions since quite some years on open boats, see CNM 50 Mediterraneo model or some of the Wally boats.

 

[Portofino]

Just pointing out check everything on a new boat @ the show
For noise levels
Agree most 50 , s these days should have deprecate chillers -air handlers
The minute he steps on board @ Cannes he will know

@ Op -contact the builders direct
Ventura in the Uk for Ferretti -they do a pre show the WE B4 in Monaco
You can drive anything
It's invite only -I got on the "list "
Via an IT dealer after enquiring about some spare part or other .

The others @ the show ask seriously about a run out ( if you have eliminated it for some other reason )

Walked on one and the saloon floor squeaked - nope
On an other the edging on the galley cabinetry came off in my hand - nope

So 7 turns into 2 very quick
No for price reasons -- can you live with it
So get the AC going full chat in the be rooms -ask yourself can I sleep with this ?
That will knock one or two off the list

 

[sam.mooney]

Well, you can count on my support on that. :encouragement:

Sorry sam.mooney, but I don't think to be alone in smelling a rat when a very first post is a blatant plug for a boat brand.
Mind, I would tell the same if you were praising the build quality of Royal Huisman, let alone Galeon...

Regardless, welcome to the asylum!

I am indeed plugging a brand, but one I am very impressed with!

P.s. Thank you for the welcome I look forward to getting more involved with the 'asylum'. :encouragement:

 

[TonyR123]

Hi Tony,

I will go to Cannes in September. I am sure it will give me a lot of better view and clarification about the differences. Just talking with some owners or sellers about the sound issue (gen, aircon), rolling, delivery times, quality aspects, try and ride and of course what will be the discount on a brand new boat vs. the benefit I'll get by buying secondhand.

http://dev.seakeeper.com/seakeeper_products/seakeeper-5/

Here is the seekeeper 5, could be fitted on a 46fly and the price 30,-k USD will make it 27,- k EUR and I think for 35-40k EUR it will be fitted so that's ok for me. On the optionlist for the Galeon 500fly you pay 50,-k EUR so appr. the same after all.

Why did you bought in Southampton? Was it just because you needed more time after Cannes or a specific reason?

Seakeeper fitting costs are def not cheap. I would be surprised if you could get it fitted for less than £10k.

I did buy new and quiet aircon was a must. Quite happy with the almost silent aircon. The gen is hardly noticeable either.

Bought in Southampton as I came away from Cannes to consider everything (pros/cons) and made my decision by Southampton (but lots of discussions and reading between cannes and southampton). Items I considered were mooring costs, tender garage, gyro, aft galley, hull age (bit nervous of going for a brand new hull as they do make changes if not right from day one - sealine 530 being an example).

An example on berthing costs - if i went above 15m x 5m then the mooring would go from €360k to €750k (this is to buy until 2031, not rent). While i could get away with a 16m boat on a 15m mooring, I would not feel comfortable going bigger than 16m on a 15m berth (even though lots of people do). So that removed a few boats form my list (ferretti 550, sunseeker 52, etc).

 

[Dragut]

Seakeeper fitting costs are def not cheap. I would be surprised if you could get it fitted for less than £10k.

I did buy new and quiet aircon was a must. Quite happy with the almost silent aircon. The gen is hardly noticeable either.

Bought in Southampton as I came away from Cannes to consider everything (pros/cons) and made my decision by Southampton (but lots of discussions and reading between cannes and southampton). Items I considered were mooring costs, tender garage, gyro, aft galley, hull age (bit nervous of going for a brand new hull as they do make changes if not right from day one - sealine 530 being an example).

An example on berthing costs - if i went above 15m x 5m then the mooring would go from €360k to €750k (this is to buy until 2031, not rent). While i could get away with a 16m boat on a 15m mooring, I would not feel comfortable going bigger than 16m on a 15m berth (even though lots of people do). So that removed a few boats form my list (ferretti 550, sunseeker 52, etc).

For me the costs for a SK are ok. I think it's the most important part a boat could have. Was a little bit doubting but the impressions, tests and reviews seems pretty clear about the results.

I brood over how I will use the boat, how many persons will attend my boat, what kind of trips and so on.

It seems clear that I will go cruising:

*one week + / 2(+2) persons
*weekend +- / 2adults + 2kids or 4adults
*fully day / 4(+2)adults + 2(+2)kids

When thinking about it realistic, that it will be my first boat, the price difference it would be maybe worthy to downsize a bit and consider a 40+ ft fly. I checked already some models which would meet my requests and "Bavaria R40" seems a good option, I visit one model last year and liked it pretty much. The only thing is if it will be having good and comfortable cruising performance because it's relatively a "small" and "light" fly.

Also the Galeon 420fly seems pretty good option for me. Not possible to transport a jetski on both models but not a big problem for me as I want to go boating mostly and not jetski-ing. Still always a platform for a tender even dough not a garage, also not a big case.

I save 300,-k euros in this way so I could buy some lot or do an investment to buy a much bigger boat when experienced after 4-5 years! I'm 34years old so rushing and going for the ultimate limit would be maybe too much. A good sec hand 45-50ft at could still change everything especially now I know a refit could include a lot. Just loudly thinking and still looking around and will do that certainly for a while.

The Galeon 420 has a gyro option, Bavaria does not, I emailed them and they didn't reply yet but I think there should be a place to install the gyro. Bavaria is more light and with all options still 75,-k EUR cheaper then a similar Galeon.

What you guys think about this analysis?

 

[Dragut]

Just pointing out check everything on a new boat @ the show
For noise levels
Agree most 50 , s these days should have deprecate chillers -air handlers
The minute he steps on board @ Cannes he will know




@ Op -contact the builders direct
Ventura in the Uk for Ferretti -they do a pre show the WE B4 in Monaco
You can drive anything
It's invite only -I got on the "list "
Via an IT dealer after enquiring about some spare part or other .

The others @ the show ask seriously about a run out ( if you have eliminated it for some other reason )

Walked on one and the saloon floor squeaked - nope
On an other the edging on the galley cabinetry came off in my hand - nope

So 7 turns into 2 very quick
No for price reasons -- can you live with it
So get the AC going full chat in the be rooms -ask yourself can I sleep with this ?
That will knock one or two off the list

Hi Portofino,

good advices as I will definitely check on these things now. Going in the remaining alternatives and just spending an hour or something seating inside, lying on the beds, turning the AC and gen on, trying to find out how to socialize and so on.

About the fairs, you go there studied out everything and knowing each detail. But in reality as on the last fair in Germany I found out that the dealers don't know so much. I experienced a lot of times that they didn't know some options which are on the list and which I was sure they were. Sometimes for them it's just a new model extra added to the line which they don't know detailed.

Thats bad and maybe I will try this time to find users directly or people from the Yard knowing all technical aspects.

What I want to say is its hard to find someone (even on fairs) who could exactly tell all aspects and characteristics of a specific boat you're interested in. Fortunately there is a forum like this to share some thoughts with a lot of people sharing the same interests.

 

[Dragut]

If you want to look at Galeon I can pass you through the right channels. Galeon has improved a lot in the 2000-2010 time lapse. I have seen some of the early 2000s 330 models with various problem to its engine installation and risers and owners fighting it with Volvo and Volvo giving the blame to Galeon, to being very impressed by the 640, which according to a yard I work with is build as good as a Ferretti 590 and better then a Princess 62/64 or Azimut of the same length.
I think some of the design solutions on the new 460 and 500 models (opening cockpit etc) even though innovative are a bit overkill for my taste.
Still they deserve praise for doing it on a flybridge boat even though some builders from Italy have been using similar solutions since quite some years on open boats, see CNM 50 Mediterraneo model or some of the Wally boats.

I definitely agree with you, I am not an expert but I think they make great boats.

Also on fairs I visited before they always had good models with nice interior and design. Would love to get in touch with someone to get all necessary details before any final decision, thanks.

 

[Portofino]

Cannes is on the water and the feel is different
Try. Before buy
There are a few used boats too

Sales staff knowledgeable

But as you say it's a case of sitting inboard and imagining how you would use it
Mostly
As no boat is 100 %
It's your choice of compromise s

 

[Bouba]

For me the costs for a SK are ok. I think it's the most important part a boat could have. Was a little bit doubting but the impressions, tests and reviews seems pretty clear about the results.

I brood over how I will use the boat, how many persons will attend my boat, what kind of trips and so on.

It seems clear that I will go cruising:

*one week + / 2(+2) persons
*weekend +- / 2adults + 2kids or 4adults
*fully day / 4(+2)adults + 2(+2)kids

When thinking about it realistic, that it will be my first boat, the price difference it would be maybe worthy to downsize a bit and consider a 40+ ft fly. I checked already some models which would meet my requests and "Bavaria R40" seems a good option, I visit one model last year and liked it pretty much. The only thing is if it will be having good and comfortable cruising performance because it's relatively a "small" and "light" fly.

Also the Galeon 420fly seems pretty good option for me. Not possible to transport a jetski on both models but not a big problem for me as I want to go boating mostly and not jetski-ing. Still always a platform for a tender even dough not a garage, also not a big case.

I save 300,-k euros in this way so I could buy some lot or do an investment to buy a much bigger boat when experienced after 4-5 years! I'm 34years old so rushing and going for the ultimate limit would be maybe too much. A good sec hand 45-50ft at could still change everything especially now I know a refit could include a lot. Just loudly thinking and still looking around and will do that certainly for a while.

The Galeon 420 has a gyro option, Bavaria does not, I emailed them and they didn't reply yet but I think there should be a place to install the gyro. Bavaria is more light and with all options still 75,-k EUR cheaper then a similar Galeon.

What you guys think about this analysis?

34 years old! So, if you start with 40-50 foot then by the time you're my age you will have a superyacht! You don't need advice from us. We need advice from you!

 

[Dragut]

Cannes is on the water and the feel is different
Try. Before buy
There are a few used boats too

Sales staff knowledgeable

But as you say it's a case of sitting inboard and imagining how you would use it
Mostly
As no boat is 100 %
It's your choice of compromise s

I'm really curious and looking forward to it.

Will be there two days, should be enough to view boats, meet and talk to some people with experience. Also some test-driving or something.

Send out an email to Bavaria if they could deliver a Seakeeper 5 ex factory and they forwarded to another dealer who responded very simply "No it is not possible". Then I asked if it is possible to do it refit after delivery later, if there is enough place, a reliable installer maybe. Still got no reply so it might be not that easy as it looks sometimes to get clear information.

 

[Dragut]

34 years old! So, if you start with 40-50 foot then by the time you're my age you will have a superyacht! You don't need advice from us. We need advice from you!

Well, I didn't realize I'm that young for a 40-50 really . I hope it will be going that way later and if I'll ever buy my super yacht that's a good prospective but damn difficult.

It's not that easy as it looks as I'm doing business since I'm 18. The last 5years I spend time and made plans to buy a nice 33-39ft boat but until now each year I'm postponing it. Now I just want to make sure I will buying outside the season and then wait in a relax mood for the delivery.

 

[Boatbore]

I am late to this thread but can't resist joining in. I always say to people when they ask me what boat to buy..... try to define exactly what you want it for and how you will use it. It is easy to imagine quiet anchorages and blue seas, and hopefully you will get a lot of that, but as everyone on here will tell you there is a lot of other stuff going on too..... you don't want to be too hot, or too cold, you need enough room for friends, or family, how many bathrooms then comes into the equation .... cruising grounds are important too and some boats are better suited for some areas than others..... so think carefully.
Shows are good but remember every boat looks fantastic at a show...... I recommend wandering around marinas and spending some time looking at the different models, their positives and negatives in as much as you think they apply to you.

I also agree with the idea of buying second hand. Don't be worried about a few niggles, They never stop, and new boats have just as many. In fact a 2 year old boat owned by a perfectionist is probably in considerably better condition than when it came out of the factory !

Finally, And apologies if someone has already mentioned this...... charter some boats if you're not sure..... it will be much cheaper to have a few fantastic holidays on an imperfect boat that helps you learn about how you want to use it, what you like and what you don't, than it will to buy a boat and then have to sell it again shortly afterwards because it's the wrong one.

It takes years to get the sort of experience that is available on this forum, and even then most of us spend a huge time disagreeing with one another !!! So there are very few wrong and rights ...... just don't buy an ugly one - I can't bear that !

Good luck !