Csail
N/A
Only a thought but if the halon extinguisher in the engine room went off while i was sleeping would it kill me?
Fire extinguishers
- Thread starter Csail
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nimbusgb
Well-Known Member
Quite possibly!
FullCircle
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Only a thought but if the halon extinguisher in the engine room went off while i was sleeping would it kill me?
[/ QUOTE ]
Assuming that your engine room space is fairly well sealed, then it might make you quite ill in the short term with a bit of inhalation.
Longer term, you may retrospectively learn the meaning of 'carcinogenic'!
Only a thought but if the halon extinguisher in the engine room went off while i was sleeping would it kill me?
[/ QUOTE ]
Assuming that your engine room space is fairly well sealed, then it might make you quite ill in the short term with a bit of inhalation.
Longer term, you may retrospectively learn the meaning of 'carcinogenic'!
MarkJohnson12345
Well-Known Member
Is Halon poisenous??
Maybe it is like CO2, and would suffocate you in you breathed it totally.
Sounds unlikely to me.
Maybe it is like CO2, and would suffocate you in you breathed it totally.
Sounds unlikely to me.
Csail
N/A
Actually i think there is an alarm....reason i ask is because the old one went off on its own....i wasn't on board.
saltwater_gypsy
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Right Andy lets take this slowly.
Your'e asleep and a raging inferno starts up in your engine room and your alarm goes off and the extinguisher bangs off and hisses away whilst the boat fills up with acrid fumes and "Halon"gas while people are shouting about the smoke and the fire engine comes racing along the pier with its blue light flashing and siren blaring.
If you sleep through that lot your'e already dead!!
Your'e asleep and a raging inferno starts up in your engine room and your alarm goes off and the extinguisher bangs off and hisses away whilst the boat fills up with acrid fumes and "Halon"gas while people are shouting about the smoke and the fire engine comes racing along the pier with its blue light flashing and siren blaring.
If you sleep through that lot your'e already dead!!
Csail
N/A
Well no....the last time there wasn't a fire , it just went off for no reason. I don't tend to sleep with the engine running anyway either.
sarabande
Well-Known Member
halon will not support respiration in human beings, or even ex Red Arrow pilots.
It has also been banned for umpteen years for use as a fire supressant. There are lots of substitutes, which are expensive, but CO2 is probably the best general purpose FE on board. In the engine room it will stop the engine without causing corrosion to electrical stuff as some powders will do.
Recommend: Change your halon kit. and be smug when you inform the insurance co. !
It has also been banned for umpteen years for use as a fire supressant. There are lots of substitutes, which are expensive, but CO2 is probably the best general purpose FE on board. In the engine room it will stop the engine without causing corrosion to electrical stuff as some powders will do.
Recommend: Change your halon kit. and be smug when you inform the insurance co. !
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
<<< Recommend: Change your halon kit. and be smug when you inform the insurance co. ! >>>
As Halon is by far the best extinguishant that has ever been produced, perhaps a better recommendation is to buy a couple of powder or foam extinguishers and place them where they are highly visible, in case of inspection by any authority. Put your halon extinguishers somewhere well out of sight but where you can find them in emergency.
The composition of halon is altered when it is used for firefighting, when it becomes harmless to the environment. It was using it for practice that released the major volumes of CFCs, although probably a tiny fraction of the volumes released by refrigerants.
As Halon is by far the best extinguishant that has ever been produced, perhaps a better recommendation is to buy a couple of powder or foam extinguishers and place them where they are highly visible, in case of inspection by any authority. Put your halon extinguishers somewhere well out of sight but where you can find them in emergency.
The composition of halon is altered when it is used for firefighting, when it becomes harmless to the environment. It was using it for practice that released the major volumes of CFCs, although probably a tiny fraction of the volumes released by refrigerants.
tinkicker0
Well-Known Member
For your automatic engine compartment extinguisher, CO2 is best, it will not be shielded by engine parts, allowing flames to smoulder in secrecy; but for manual portables on a boat, better with modern foam.
Oh and yes I concur, Halon will kill you. If not quickly now, slowly later.
Oh and yes I concur, Halon will kill you. If not quickly now, slowly later.
BlueLancer
Well-Known Member
The main frame computer room were I work is protected by a halon system. To enter the room the system has to be deactivated before entry. This is to prevent inhalation of halon if the system activated is by accident. I can therefore assume that the stuff is unhealthy to say the least. I know hat BFC is deadly in an enclosed environment, although excellent at putting out fires. As to dry powder, I would prefer to moan about the mess than not be there at all. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Cruiser2B
Well-Known Member
What a load of misinformation. Check NIOSH or WHMIS data sheets. Halon is not a specific entity - it is a class of products; you probably have 1211 or 1301, but it's best to check the label on the tank(s). These newer Halons are non-toxic - the hazards are asphyxiation and frostbite (from exposure to the liquid form). To answer your question, does your engine compartment ventilate to your berth and do you have sufficient quantity of Halon in tank(s) to flood your cabin? It is heavier than air, so will sink, displacing the air and will remain in confined spaces. Neither of the mentioned Halons are known carcinogens. IIRC, there is the hazard that some toxic compounds may be created when certain halons are heated, but this wouldn't be the case in an accidental release. You may consider converting to a more environmentally-friendly extinguisher such as CO2, argon or HFC-23.
sarabande
Well-Known Member
I guess that quite a few FTSE companies must be working under bad information then. See the EC Regulation 2037/2000 which came into force on 1 October 2000
UK Legislation prohibited the sale of halon products from December 31st 2002 (military excepted, basically).
Except for equipment deemed critical under the Regulation, all fire-fighting equipment in the EU containing halons must be decommissioned before 31st December 2003.
If anyone has halon in a UK data centre, it's illegal. Yes, I know about all the "families", but it's a definite No No.
http://halon-1301.co.uk/
UK Legislation prohibited the sale of halon products from December 31st 2002 (military excepted, basically).
Except for equipment deemed critical under the Regulation, all fire-fighting equipment in the EU containing halons must be decommissioned before 31st December 2003.
If anyone has halon in a UK data centre, it's illegal. Yes, I know about all the "families", but it's a definite No No.
http://halon-1301.co.uk/
peterb
Well-Known Member
Agreed with all you say, but just to add a bit.
Halon is an effective extinguishant because it interferes with the chain reactions within the flame. It is much less effective on smouldering fires, 'cos there's no flame. Unfortunately its electron capture capabilities are just those that help to prevent the formation of ozone at high altitudes, which is why halon was (and is) banned.
CO2 works differently. To keep a fire going the heat output must be sufficient to heat the next lot of fuel up to ignition point. If it can't do that, then the fire will go out. CO2 (or other inert gases) dilute the oxygen and increase the amount of gas that must be heated. Once the oxygen concentration has been reduced from its normal 21% to about 10%, there isn't enough heat to keep the flame temperature up and the fire going.
That means that you need to mix the air about 50-50 with CO2. To find out how much CO2 you are likely to need, a quick estimate says about the same volume as your engine bay. About 2kg per cubic metre.
Halon is an effective extinguishant because it interferes with the chain reactions within the flame. It is much less effective on smouldering fires, 'cos there's no flame. Unfortunately its electron capture capabilities are just those that help to prevent the formation of ozone at high altitudes, which is why halon was (and is) banned.
CO2 works differently. To keep a fire going the heat output must be sufficient to heat the next lot of fuel up to ignition point. If it can't do that, then the fire will go out. CO2 (or other inert gases) dilute the oxygen and increase the amount of gas that must be heated. Once the oxygen concentration has been reduced from its normal 21% to about 10%, there isn't enough heat to keep the flame temperature up and the fire going.
That means that you need to mix the air about 50-50 with CO2. To find out how much CO2 you are likely to need, a quick estimate says about the same volume as your engine bay. About 2kg per cubic metre.
RAI
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
That means that you need to mix the air about 50-50 with CO2. To find out how much CO2 you are likely to need, a quick estimate says about the same volume as your engine bay. About 2kg per cubic metre.
[/ QUOTE ]Sounds good. But if air at sea level has a density of about 1.2 kg/m3, 2 kg of CO2 would do a lot more than dilute the oxygen content. Nevertheless, better on the safe side.
And the OP question remains. CO2 is not poisonous, but in sufficient quantity possibly suffocating.
Still, the sound of a CO2 extinguisher letting loose could be a wakening experience.
That means that you need to mix the air about 50-50 with CO2. To find out how much CO2 you are likely to need, a quick estimate says about the same volume as your engine bay. About 2kg per cubic metre.
[/ QUOTE ]Sounds good. But if air at sea level has a density of about 1.2 kg/m3, 2 kg of CO2 would do a lot more than dilute the oxygen content. Nevertheless, better on the safe side.
And the OP question remains. CO2 is not poisonous, but in sufficient quantity possibly suffocating.
Still, the sound of a CO2 extinguisher letting loose could be a wakening experience.
peterb
Well-Known Member
Remember, CO2 is denser than air. The molecular weight of CO2 is 44, whilst that of nitrogen (the major constituent of air) is only 28. But yes, I've slightly overestimated the amount of CO2; better safe than sorry. And remember, if you're releasing that amount of compressed gas into the engine compartment then there must be a route by which that amount of gas can get out, otherwise the engine bay could burst.
CO2 isn't directly poisonous, but it is suffocating. And it is a heart stimulant; that's a useful property for expired air resuscitation (kiss of life), but it's not too good if you might have heart problems.
CO2 isn't directly poisonous, but it is suffocating. And it is a heart stimulant; that's a useful property for expired air resuscitation (kiss of life), but it's not too good if you might have heart problems.
RAI
Well-Known Member
The bit I really like about CO2 fire extinguishers is that they don't have a ditch-by date. Just weigh them to check the contents every year.
rogerthebodger
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
the old one went off on its own
[/ QUOTE ]
I had that happen to me when I lived in the UK.
Now I will only fit a remote operated Fire extinguisher in my engine room with a fire/smoke alarm.
the old one went off on its own
[/ QUOTE ]
I had that happen to me when I lived in the UK.
Now I will only fit a remote operated Fire extinguisher in my engine room with a fire/smoke alarm.
