Filling a engine with oil...Max or not?

Portofino said:
Calibration.......it’s to do with the install angle , more of a shaft drive thing tbh
pic paints a 1000 words
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I understand that concept perfectly well Porto. I think you have missed mine. I take it when you do oil changes you pour in oil using the dipstick as a guide. I maintain that is probably the wrong way to do it. Your manufacturer will state how much the engine holds. If you can scavenge all the oil as you professed then I maintain that the amount of oil you put in should not be governed by the dipstick but by the the volume dictated. In your case 32 litres. The dipstick is a guide after the fact to monitor what your oil consumption is doing.
Now, as for the TAMD73, as it's dipstick sits halfway along the length axis of the engine a few degrees tilt is not going to change it's oil level mark, is it? Not one iota. The OP did make it clear from the start he was talking about his TAMD73.
 
Ok, let me help you this way. Do they test the angle when the boat is on the hard and do the math or when the boat is in the water when the angle is subject to further change. How do they compensate for any further angles off the horizontal to account for optional extras like a few water toys, a tender, a few years off accumulating junk and changing things about when every degree counts? How about list? That's really going to add some hurt to the equations.
 
BruceK said:
Ok, let me help you this way. Do they test the angle when the boat is on the hard and do the math or when the boat is in the water when the angle is subject to further change. How do they compensate for any further angles off the horizontal to account for optional extras like a few water toys, a tender, a few years off accumulating junk and changing things about when every degree counts? How about list? That's really going to add some hurt to the equations.
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Usually in the installation or full complete engine manual Volvo etc give the range of angles that the engine can be operated in. (and it's a LOT of movement in 3 dimensions) So, yes they have worked it all out to make sure when the boat is rolling and pitching about, the oil pick up is always submerged in oil. It's why they have so much oil in there. My KAMDS specify 11 litres total, thats a 3.7L engine. An equivalent car engine would have half that. However a car is not going to be driving around rolling from side to side +/- 40 degrees or more, or pitching up/down 15 - 20 degs. The dipstick level is there to verify you have more than enough even when the boat is being thrown about in a big sea. If the oilpick up comes out of the oil for even 1/2 a second your big ends are gone! As long as your oil level is over the minimum you have plenty. Over the full mark and it can create problems, frothing, leaks, burning oil, etc. Anywhere in between should be fine. Volvo/Caterpillar/Yanmar etc have been making engines for a long time and will leave plenty of margin of error for complete morons who never check anything. I used to design a variety of products, the original marketing spec was usually pretty straight forward to meet. The difficult bit was working out in just how many ways the end user will abuse the product, not read the instructions and then still complain and demand their money back when it breaks. The key to a good product design is how well it withstands the customers who buy it.

If the oil level was in any way marginal they would have warranty claims all the time for oil starvation.
 
BruceK said:
I understand that concept perfectly well Porto. I think you have missed mine. I take it when you do oil changes you pour in oil using the dipstick as a guide. I maintain that is probably the wrong way to do it. Your manufacturer will state how much the engine holds. If you can scavenge all the oil as you professed then I maintain that the amount of oil you put in should not be governed by the dipstick but by the the volume dictated. In your case 32 litres. The dipstick is a guide after the fact to monitor what your oil consumption is doing.
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I do oil changes as you suggest and the MAN manual for my boat .
The reason 32 L ( in this case ) sits 1/2 way up between the two marks is because the sticks have been calibrated and tagged by an engineer with the boat in the water at rest .

Fortunately i can happen to scavenge it all out as we decant it into used 5 L containers with vol measurements on the side .

With my old VP boat with KAD 300 s it was more haphazard .
Pele pump even when warm only sucked our approx 9 L with the last L taking a bit of jiggling of the end .
Vol was supposed to near 11L iirc ? ......hence it turned black with in minutes after starting as the 2 L or what ever of old crud mixed in .

The oil stays it’s golden colour for the first 20 hrs or so and then darkens , but never gets as black as the VP KAD 300 even after this year 80 hrs .......because as much as poss , virtually all is pumped out with the dedicated pump / oil removal system . VP are still in the Stone Age ....re oil replacement compared to the German stuff .
 
Of course they are (y) But, studies have shown VP attracts a different clientele. One not so easily impressed by bespoke calibrated dipsticks ,and other minor bragging rights. We're the poor cousins :p So long as the boat comes with two or more bar fridges life is peachy, you keep your calibrated dipstick. Hours of fun right there.
 
I would fill to max unless you engine does not like it. By not like I mean that it immediacy burns or spits it out.

Lycoming engines on planes fill to 8 quarts ( they are American!) but I don't know why they bother as if you put 8 in most of them it goes down to 7 on first flight and stays there until the next oil change.

My D12s are filled to full and stay there I see no reason to change. Overfilling it properly will cause issues but upto the max line will mean oil is still only in the sump.
 
BruceK said:
Ok, let me help you this way. Do they test the angle when the boat is on the hard and do the math or when the boat is in the water when the angle is subject to further change. How do they compensate for any further angles off the horizontal to account for optional extras like a few water toys, a tender, a few years off accumulating junk and changing things about when every degree counts? How about list? That's really going to add some hurt to the equations.
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No fannying about with maths! The instructions are simple. When the boat is afloat, fill the engine with the correct amount of oil and then mark the dipstick accordingly after the first run.
 
A few cc;s here and there makes naff all difference ..... just make sure there's at least half way up the stick marks or near full and be happy !!

And I thought Dipsticks etc. were provided to make life easy ... pull it out - read the level ... top up if necessary.
 
I expect the likes of Volvo issue instructions about maximum angles to mount the engine, and also calculate likely angle of pitch and roll, and Mark both the minimum and maximum on the dispstick to cope with all of these. Stick between the two and you will be fine. I just happen to prefer working towards the top mark for the reasons mentioned.
 
PCUK said:
No fannying about with maths! The instructions are simple. When the boat is afloat, fill the engine with the correct amount of oil and then mark the dipstick accordingly after the first run.
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All which points back to how I said oil changes should be done. i.e. fill by required quantity, use the dipstick as a daily check guide.
 
BruceK said:
Ok, let me help you this way. Do they test the angle when the boat is on the hard and do the math or when the boat is in the water when the angle is subject to further change. How do they compensate for any further angles off the horizontal to account for optional extras like a few water toys, a tender, a few years off accumulating junk and changing things about when every degree counts? How about list? That's really going to add some hurt to the equations.
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Engines in road vehicles cope with gradients up to say 1 in 3 without any worries, I suggest you just ignore all the small changes of angle.
 
Scubadoo said:
Furthermore, I don't recall the land rover community having issues with their engines when offloading, simply fill to the max line on the dipstick, job done.
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Who cares about other than marine diesels ?

Take this ........
RR Merlin in the spitfire had an ingenious lub system that meant it could fly inverted .....as and when the pilot required ....thinking dog fight with a ME109 .
Additionally ...a semi forced induction system on the carbs so they could function inverted ......as long as the pilot requires .

ME109 ....no such adaptations.......Jerry could only momentarily invert for fear of engine conking out ,

Back to marine leisure .....forum
Sumps in boats are often different to any road version .....shallower so you can’t compare .
Additionally VP did not do road versions of the KAD or D6 anyhow .......

With mine the D28 MAN block turns up in everything 12.8 L ....Lorries , rail cars - it’s horizontal btw here , plant , coaches , noble cranes and of course returning to topic boats ....each with different sumps .
So a 8x8 off road missile carrier with the same block will have a different sump to the marine 2876 .

As said calibration closes down a whole raft of potential warranty claims .
 
Actually while we are on the subject ,and seeing as someones tossed in Landrovers and steep inclines ....they have a sufficiently deep and baffled sump .Engine mounted high because of the deep sump .

Take a sports car with a view to handling then try and mount the engine as low as poss .
If you reduce the sump depth too low in an effort to get the weight low then ( even with baffles ) theres a risk of oil starvation on hard corners with wet sump .

Thats why the better sports cars are dry sump .
The oil is stored separately in a oil tank .Two pumps .One to pump the oil from the tank into the crank ( usually hollow ) and around normally and another pump to scavenge out the virtually zero vol sump ....via a cooler bs k to the tank .
This means you can really lower the engine as low as it will go ....typical Ferrari set up and Porsche 911 .

I know on my 2876 Le 401 boat engines they have “ shallow sump “ .....to fit them lower .
Ok only a slight lowering of the Cog but any lowering is better than none at all .But theres enough hight above them to the ER ceiling so I can climb over etc and access items like easily remove the valve covers and adjust etc etc .......

@ Bruce ....no I did not buy the boat because of “ bragging rights “ with the calibrated sticks .....
They are a reflection of MANs attention to detail along with different sump profiles for the D28 blocks .
 
........ and calibration is done by pouring in the correct quantity and aligning the dipstick to it... as per above. Hence if you've scavenged all your oil, put in the designated quantity and use the dipstick to monitor after the fact.
Unlike? yours the OP's dipstick is centre axis and I dont believe it requires calibrating albeit volume / oil capacity changes with angle of which there are designated values.
 
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