Jeremy_W
New member
On the Solent, the ferries all have an "Asterie-Hunting" mode that overrides the autopilot.
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Ferries on autopliot
- Thread starter Rob_Webb
- Start date
Ships_Cat
New member
Re: Yes there is!
Hi Mike
HSC in NZ are required to comply with IMO HSC 2000 if over 35 m and can exceed 25 knots and sail outside of restricted limits (ie international voyages). The size cutoff, as also applies in many countries, is to avoid the silliness of having to apply for exemptions for things not appropriate on smaller craft and the speed cutoff because the HSC definition formula (which gives a speed calculated from displacement) does not work well for smaller craft eg from memory, without recalculating it, under IMO a 50 tonne craft becomes an HSC one if it can exceed around 17 knots which is silly.
Here in NZ for under 35 m HSC the local rules are written to capture aspects applicable to vessels in the 20 to 35 metres and less than 20 metres size ranges and not undertaking international voyages so that the requirements are more appropriate to vessel size without the need for applying for exemptions from IMO 2000 requirements.
UK (and the EU) require all HSC craft to comply with HSC 2000 regardless of size and regardless of service - even though HSC 2000 is only intended, as far as IMO is concerned, to be applied to vessels engaged in international service, but EU requires HSC regardless. This requirement results in lots of exemptions being required for smaller craft where the requirements are not appropriate (the damage stability ones being examples).
For the HSC that I have been involved with (all outside of NZ and several under UK legislation) we have provided backup electronic steering systems in the wheelhouse eg the Hamilton Control Panel Modules, one per engine, in their MECS system, which gives you a backup throttle and steering joystick for each engine/jet unit - so each water jet has to be steered/throttle/fwd/rev individually. If all that fails then, as you say it is someone(s) in the engineroom(s) on the telephone.
As I think you have made very clear, these vessels are very much "fly by wire", with throttles/steering/pilot all interwoven on wire, something which I think many do not realise (most of all the news media).
John
<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.
Hi Mike
HSC in NZ are required to comply with IMO HSC 2000 if over 35 m and can exceed 25 knots and sail outside of restricted limits (ie international voyages). The size cutoff, as also applies in many countries, is to avoid the silliness of having to apply for exemptions for things not appropriate on smaller craft and the speed cutoff because the HSC definition formula (which gives a speed calculated from displacement) does not work well for smaller craft eg from memory, without recalculating it, under IMO a 50 tonne craft becomes an HSC one if it can exceed around 17 knots which is silly.
Here in NZ for under 35 m HSC the local rules are written to capture aspects applicable to vessels in the 20 to 35 metres and less than 20 metres size ranges and not undertaking international voyages so that the requirements are more appropriate to vessel size without the need for applying for exemptions from IMO 2000 requirements.
UK (and the EU) require all HSC craft to comply with HSC 2000 regardless of size and regardless of service - even though HSC 2000 is only intended, as far as IMO is concerned, to be applied to vessels engaged in international service, but EU requires HSC regardless. This requirement results in lots of exemptions being required for smaller craft where the requirements are not appropriate (the damage stability ones being examples).
For the HSC that I have been involved with (all outside of NZ and several under UK legislation) we have provided backup electronic steering systems in the wheelhouse eg the Hamilton Control Panel Modules, one per engine, in their MECS system, which gives you a backup throttle and steering joystick for each engine/jet unit - so each water jet has to be steered/throttle/fwd/rev individually. If all that fails then, as you say it is someone(s) in the engineroom(s) on the telephone.
As I think you have made very clear, these vessels are very much "fly by wire", with throttles/steering/pilot all interwoven on wire, something which I think many do not realise (most of all the news media).
John
<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.
brianhumber
New member
Re: I\'m totally surprised?
Twould have to be a b-----y great tiller for a VLCC or even a small commercial !!. I remember after the Amoco Cadiz we spent a lot of time welding up drop in large metal spacers to supposely to be used stop the rudder rams slamming from hard port to hard starboard if they lost all hydraulic fluid. It would be a brave man and his mates to have tried to do this in a storm with several tonnes of split oil sloshing around them and the steering flat
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Twould have to be a b-----y great tiller for a VLCC or even a small commercial !!. I remember after the Amoco Cadiz we spent a lot of time welding up drop in large metal spacers to supposely to be used stop the rudder rams slamming from hard port to hard starboard if they lost all hydraulic fluid. It would be a brave man and his mates to have tried to do this in a storm with several tonnes of split oil sloshing around them and the steering flat
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boatmike
Well-known member
Re: Yes there is!
Interesting John
Yes you are right about the damage stability rules of course. Professional confidentiality prevents me from being specific but I was involved with a South African designer now living in NZ when I was project managing the build of 3 small (150pax) fast ferries with composite hulls in Southampton. You may if you are in the business be able to work out which ones as they were featured in Fast Ferry Magazine at the time! Meeting the damaged stability requirement required a lot of thought and a few areas of "false bottom" but we did it without many concessions! Now retired I spend my time sailing my own cat (only 37ft but it's all mine!) Actually the EU don't require HSC for routes that are not international but MCA still apply their own standards in the UK which amounts to the same thing and most routes are international anyway so theres no point in not complying. Interesting to talk to a "fellow sufferer" though even if it's all becoming a dim memory now for me....
Good luck Kiwi! Keep the faith!
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Interesting John
Yes you are right about the damage stability rules of course. Professional confidentiality prevents me from being specific but I was involved with a South African designer now living in NZ when I was project managing the build of 3 small (150pax) fast ferries with composite hulls in Southampton. You may if you are in the business be able to work out which ones as they were featured in Fast Ferry Magazine at the time! Meeting the damaged stability requirement required a lot of thought and a few areas of "false bottom" but we did it without many concessions! Now retired I spend my time sailing my own cat (only 37ft but it's all mine!) Actually the EU don't require HSC for routes that are not international but MCA still apply their own standards in the UK which amounts to the same thing and most routes are international anyway so theres no point in not complying. Interesting to talk to a "fellow sufferer" though even if it's all becoming a dim memory now for me....
Good luck Kiwi! Keep the faith!
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Ships_Cat
New member
Re: Yes there is!
Hi Mike
I know the designer you refer to very well and have managed the construction of some of his boats, with another due to start build sometime soon in Australia. Am also currently working with him on the concept for another (300 pax) one for a foreign client of mine right now.
Also the 3 composite boats you mention, including the gravel rash whoopsee one had out in the Solent /forums/images/icons/blush.gif.
Regards
John
<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.
Hi Mike
I know the designer you refer to very well and have managed the construction of some of his boats, with another due to start build sometime soon in Australia. Am also currently working with him on the concept for another (300 pax) one for a foreign client of mine right now.
Also the 3 composite boats you mention, including the gravel rash whoopsee one had out in the Solent /forums/images/icons/blush.gif.
Regards
John
<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.
Sea Devil
Well-known member
Re: Yes there is!
A short while ago my wife and I visited the bridge of a cross channel car ferry whilst it was on passage through the shipping lanes..
Two people on the bridge - first officer and a watchkeeper seaman. The first officer controlled the ferry totally. He had a very large Radar Chart screen in front of the bridge window so he could look up from the screen straight out of the bridge windows.
The ferry was on autopilot as I am certain almost all merchant ships are and the first officer constantly plotted positions of echos on the screen and laid of bearings (electronically) all the time. When it was necessasary to take action he dialed in course alterations - all of which were logged - The watch keeper seaman watched only.
The system appeared to be very efficient and safe in the calm conditions that prevailed and more practical than giving orders verbally to a healmsman as well as more efficient. The First Officer was totally in control and busy with his work.
On another ferry trip in severe gale conditions I was interested to note that the bridge of that ferry was full of watch keepers - presumably as the radar echos became less reliable..
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.michaelbriant.com/sailing>http://www.michaelbriant.com/sailing</A>
A short while ago my wife and I visited the bridge of a cross channel car ferry whilst it was on passage through the shipping lanes..
Two people on the bridge - first officer and a watchkeeper seaman. The first officer controlled the ferry totally. He had a very large Radar Chart screen in front of the bridge window so he could look up from the screen straight out of the bridge windows.
The ferry was on autopilot as I am certain almost all merchant ships are and the first officer constantly plotted positions of echos on the screen and laid of bearings (electronically) all the time. When it was necessasary to take action he dialed in course alterations - all of which were logged - The watch keeper seaman watched only.
The system appeared to be very efficient and safe in the calm conditions that prevailed and more practical than giving orders verbally to a healmsman as well as more efficient. The First Officer was totally in control and busy with his work.
On another ferry trip in severe gale conditions I was interested to note that the bridge of that ferry was full of watch keepers - presumably as the radar echos became less reliable..
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.michaelbriant.com/sailing>http://www.michaelbriant.com/sailing</A>