Fees charged on sale of boat by boatyard for doing NOTHING!

[Gludy]

With respect BrokerBen - 8% is a rip off and not the norm (no matter how much brokers would like to portray it as normal)

The 1% to the marina is a rip off and should be changed.

I hope this wind of change comes fast /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[cliffordpope]

" did think of that but the "For Sale" sign on the boat and people viewing it might give the game away. Not to mention the ads online and in mags in THEIR YARD!"

I think you have answered your own question! They are providing hard standing, parking, possibly toilet facilities, and staff to give directions and doubtless be distracted from their work by enquirers wandering about.
If someone wanted to park a car on your drive and offer it for sale to all and sundry, wouldn't you make a hefty charge, if you accepted it at all?

 

[longjohnsilver]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you have answered your own question! They are providing hard standing, parking, possibly toilet facilities, and staff to give directions and doubtless be distracted from their work by enquirers wandering about.
If someone wanted to park a car on your drive and offer it for sale to all and sundry, wouldn't you make a hefty charge, if you accepted it at all?


[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry but that's complete rubbish! Would be true if you were parking your boat there for free but that's not the case! As for staff being distracted, well how likely is that. Where's such and such a boat mate? Over there.................. Maybe a few seconds, no more.

Back to your car analogy. If I was to sell my car whilst in a public car park I wouldn't have to pay the local authority or whoever a 1% fee.

No it's simply a complete rip off, no more no less.

 

[adey]

[ QUOTE ]
If someone wanted to park a car on your drive and offer it for sale to all and sundry, wouldn't you make a hefty charge, if you accepted it at all?

[/ QUOTE ]
Ahh, but if you paid to park in a car park and put a 'for sale' sign on it would you expect the car park owner to charge you an extra 1% if you sold it?

It's outrageous.

I don't get the extra risk idea either. By advertising it with the boatyard's name you are promoting them for free. If more people visit the boatyard they're more likely to spend money while they're there (parking, food, chandlery etc).

 

[cliffordpope]

It's simple supply and demand. They have something you want - a prime sales pitch. If you don't want it, go somewhere else. Put your boat on a mudflat and tell customers they will need waders to get to it, and see how many you attract.

 

[lookout]

[ QUOTE ]
Ahh, but if you paid to park in a car park and put a 'for sale' sign on it would you expect the car park owner to charge you an extra 1% if you sold it?


[/ QUOTE ]

well yes, I would if it was in the contract I spose.

I bet MDL & Premier don't worry about it though - do they?

 

[Observer]

You need to look at it from the marina operator's perspective. They need to attract tenants (brokers, chandlers, repairers etc) to their site (as well as boat owners) because boat owners want services and the operator needs the rent. If no rent than berthing fees would be higher.

The tenant (broker/chandler/whatever) will be more likely to establish his business if he has some protection from off-site competition (and that's not completely unreasonable). So the operator agrees to require berth-holders to pay a commission if they sell their boat from the yard otherwise than through the resident broker. Similarly, they often charge a fee if a non-resident does work on a boat.

You can ask the operator to waive that condition but he may be unable to do so unless the resident broker agrees.

I recommend all sellers check their berthing contracts before putting boat up for sale. If there is a commission to the operator, ask for it to be waived but be prepared for operator to say he can't waive without resident broker's agreement. If that is required, then go to the resident broker and ask him to agree. He may or may not do so - or may agree a reduced or flat fee or may offer you a deal for his own services. After all, it's usually more convenient for everyone if the broker is on site.

 

[Brayman]

Our marina license was reviewd by the OFT and many clauses were deleted or amended, in particular:
"1(e): required the consumer to pay commission to the supplier on sale of their vessel, even where the supplier had had no involvement in the sale. Deleted."
Strangely, the current terms still have the clause included - so much for the powers of the OFT!

 

[SnaxMuppet]

No... the large yards don't charge anything but they charge much more for the storage in the first place.

This arguement that they ARE provoding a service I don't see. If I store my boat on they land... they charge me a price. I sell my boat whilst there and they charge me more. Where is the service? The fact that I might have people viewing that they need insurance cover for is silly as is the additional water use etc as that would be miniimal.

Nope, it is a rip-off charge and unjustifiable. There is no additional benefit to me between storing my boat there just for storage or if I sell it whilst there.

 

[Observer]

[ QUOTE ]
Nope, it is a rip-off charge and unjustifiable. There is no additional benefit to me between storing my boat there just for storage or if I sell it whilst there.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's neither a rip off nor unjustifiable if the berth-holder agrees to it. As I explained, it's usually the marina operator protecting his tenants.

Say you're a broker and paying oodles of rent for offices in a marina, salaried staff, other overheads. Are you going to be happy to see 'for sale' signs on boats on behalf of some external broker who's working out of his car with a mobile phone and no overhead?

 

[Gludy]

I agree that it is a rip off. One they can get away with whilst there is sufficient demand for their services.

1. The fee goes to the marina not a broker rentingn their office space.

2. The marina does now own the boats - it simply charges for the space and services.

3. The fee is not in anyway related to the value of the boat hence a percentage is illogical.

4. Why should just some people who sell their boat pay large fees to cross subsidise others who do not sell their boat?

It is clearly a rip off - my marina does not do it. Not all do - just those that may chance to get away with it.

 

[SnaxMuppet]

Well... I see it differently...

The broker on site needs to be competitive enough to be able to trade in an open fashion in the marketplace. He shouldn't need to rip off the boatowners in the yard that decide not to use him. If he can't get the residents of the yard to use the resident broker then perhaps there is something wrong with his charges or business.

Forcing people to use a resident broker or accept a 1% charge is a total rip off.

As to the suggestion that is is OK if you sign a contract with it in that would be fine if there was an alternative. All of the yards in and around Plymouth charge it except for the biggies.

Sure... I have a choice... pay it or pay the high charges of the big marinas... I have decided to leave the yacht in QAB and pay the high marina charges. Yes, it is more than the other yards but at least I am getting value and service from the higher charges instead of giving money to the smaller yards for no benefit what so ever.

 

[Observer]

You pays your money and takes your choice. That's what you've done. Others may or may not agree with you. No doubt, if enough do agree with you, the smaller yards will change their terms of business. Frankly, I find it perplexing that you complain about the terms of a contract you haven't entered into and use emotive and pejorative language such as "it's a rip off". It's business - no more and no less. You didn't like the charge so you took your business elsewhere. That's the market working as it should.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

[ QUOTE ]
If no rent than berthing fees would be higher.

[/ QUOTE ] No, that should read, "If no rent then marina owner would be poorer, but not that poorer."

Do what did. Have the clause deleted.

 

[jcmmarine]

It is just the same when they charge you for the privilage of having someone come in and work on your boat.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

[ QUOTE ]
It is just the same when they charge you for the privilage of having someone come in and work on your boat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Flaming heck. Do you people on the south coast pay for breathing the marina's air? I really did not know this sort of charging went on.

 

[cliffordpope]

And if your car is at the garage, they would object if you had someone else in to work on it. Outrageous!

 

[SnaxMuppet]

Well, I have gone to every boat yard in Plymouth and they either all charge the 1% or they are not a yard I would want to store my boat at. I suppose that tells me something.

I have decided to leave it where she is - at QAB Marina. It is expensive at over £100 more but at least I am getting something for my money. Clean hardstanding, good, 24hr access, water, electricity on hand, no cleaning restrictions, easy to work on her, more visibility for prospective buyers.

I would rather pay an extra £100pm to MDL than be ripped off by a smaller yard for doing nothing.

No all I need to do is sell her!