Fees charged on sale of boat by boatyard for doing NOTHING!

[SnaxMuppet]

Now that we are dedicated mobo'ers we are selling our yacht. I am currently looking for somewhere to put her on the hard until she is sold.

It seems to me that there are many yards that charge a fee, usually 1%, if a boat is sold when stored at the yard.

To me this is simply outrageous! I certainly don't shirk at paying for a service. I run my own business and if I provide a service then I expect people to pay for it but to levy a charge just because you happened to sell your boat whilst stored on their yard is nothing short of a rip-off.

Where does this charge originate from? How can they justify it given that they do not do anything for it?

I suspect that it may even be successfully challenged in court... has anyone ever taken this issue to court? What was the outcome?

I am now serching for a yard in Plymouth that doesn't charge this rediculous fee but so far I am at a loss /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[longjohnsilver]

Why tell them when it's sold, just take it away and hand to new owner.

 

[SnaxMuppet]

I did think of that but the "For Sale" sign on the boat and people viewing it might give the game away. Not to mention the ads online and in mags in THEIR YARD!

I would just prefer that we not be charged a rip-off fee.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Yes but who's to say that the boat has been sold, loads for sale year after year. Which yard btw? Have you tried Shorestore just up the river from you.

 

[SnaxMuppet]

Good point but it needs me to lie about it and I hate that. Just me I suppose. If I agree to a contract then I would abide by it.

Shorestore was one that doesn't but they don't hire cradles and as I don't have a cradle I ruled them out. They also have the yard besides a metal recycling plant and it is quite dirty. Not good if selling a boat.

I do realise that most people just wouldn't tell the yard that the boat is for sale but I can't do that.

 

[tillergirl]

The practice originates from a time before brokers when boatyards provided a service to vendors by opening up boats and showing them round. Is it in your contract with them?

 

[SnaxMuppet]

It is in almost every storage contract I have seen so far... I just refuse to sign it.

I may have to move the boat out of Plymouth if I can't find anywhere that doesn't do it.

 

[boatbuilder]

Give Sean Huggins a call. Either at Carbeille wharf or Torpoint yacht harbour. He's allways up for a deal.

 

[volvopaul]

This is very common with most yards, you will find that some yards and marinas wont let other brokers or engineers work on there patch , sometimes they will but will want a cut from my pocket, so I tend to arrange a meet elsewhere with the owner, much to the annoyance of the yard if they wernt so greedy then we could get along together.

Dont sign anything unless they threaten to kick you off, then id go anyway so they still get nothing.

Some berthing agreements clearly state no outside contactors as they have there own men or approved companies that they no doubt get a cut as well, I often wonder is I too will one day be escorted off the premises even though i am an invited guest of the boat owner.
Good luck.

 

[carlton]

Get a mate to "buy" it for £10 - official receipt and everything - then give them the two bob they deserve..........

 

[SP2]

Yes I agree it is a rip-off and we were recently so "ripped" when selling Spectrum Too at Medway Bridge Marina. I knew the 1% fee was in their terms and expected to be charged (even though I didn't like the idea) but what I was surprised at was their approach to the matter.

I told them we had sold as the purchaser would be in contact to arrange to lift her and load onto his transport.

They called me on the mobile the day before he was due to collect and the conversation went something like this:

Them - "Hi, we have had someone saying he is collecting your boat tomorrow and needs her lifting. We just thought we should check this was okay."

Me - "Yes that's fine - she's off to Scotland."

Them - "yes no problem... we do need your account settled before the boat can be released"

Me - "Yes I realise that so I will be down in the morning to pay you and do the hand over."

Them - "That's great... oh and by the way, how much did you sell for?"

I told them the correct amount. I knew why they were asking but it was dropped in at the end almost like they were interested for research purposes. They never said "so we can calculate our commission".

My purchaser said they asked him how much he bought for, also as an apparent throw-away comment showing interest in what went on in the marine world.

I felt they possibly felt uneasy being upfront about the charge (although not so uneasy not to charge it).

This situation has been the case at some places since as long as I have been on the water. I remember in 1974 my father trying to concoct all manner of ways of avoiding paying the marina (also Medway Bridge) this "commission" including taking the purchaser out for the day and returning saying the deal had been done "off site" - a bit like selling in international waters.

Possibly recent events hereabouts (Peters Opal) might herald the start of some new relationships between the customer and the supplier. Certainly this "commission" is questionable and not really a twenty first century concept IMHO.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

When I first berthed my boat, I queried the commission charge and was told that it was never invoked, so I got the marina boss to cross out the clause and sign it, which he did. I don't anyone has been asked for the money during my time there.

The main problem for them was that my boat often spent the winter on my drive at home, so I could sell it then and I can assure you I had no intention of sharing the spoils.

 

[ms1]

I think the mooring agreement used to be a contract and I suspect there is an argument that, if tested, would find that this is "unreasonable". In Engish law there is a "reasonableness test". I notice however that a couple of years back my contract metamorphosed into a Licence which I suspect has a different status in law ..
This 1% is a curse .. its something the marine industry should deal with.

 

[fireball]

But .... if a potential purchaser (of which you could have quite a number) had an accident on the yards premises whilst viewing your boat then they could choose to sue the yard for damages etc etc ... so the yard need to spend money on insurance to cover this .... it would only take 1 claim to negate all the 1%'s for the year.

But yup - I don't agree with it eitherway ... money for nothing!!

 

[jfm]

it\'s not for doing nothing. They let you moor a boat there!

There is no "reasonableness" test in this circumstance. There's an ability to have an unfair contract term struck out, but unfair is different from unreasonable and this isn't unfair.

In the boatyard's defence, they will say they allowed the viewers onto their site and took the risks associated with that. But the killer point (that would make them win in court) is that it is part of the price for letting you moor your boat in the marina, and when you take that into account you can see that the boatyard's position is quite reasonable. I dont htink I could criticise the marina. They set their price which is say £5k a year plus 1% of the sale value, and you choose to moor there, or not. It's just commerce. If you believe in perfect markets and this practice were to be outlawed tomorrow, the berthing fee would go up to £5250 or whatever.

 

[MakinWaves]

Most boat yards charge a 1% ACCESS commision fee for boats sold privately whilst on their property. This covers general wear and tear of their property, and the use of any services e.g. water whilst showing an engine running, etc.

Terms and conditions for a boat yard are writen as a standard template by the British Marine Federation who also offer legal support for the boat yard when required if any one who tries to break the terms.

By storing your boat in their yard, you are automatically agreeing to their terms and conditions.

 

[jfm]

Of course if they're colluding without registering the fact at OFT (like calling each other and saying I'll charge this 1% thing if you do. Or is the industry standard contract a collusion?) then it's big fines all round. Ask BA and VirginAtlantic...

 

[Gludy]

I think some in the Marine business consider themselves outside the laws on competition etc - it would not even surprise me to find such collusion in open letters.

The 1% fee has no relationship between the fee and the service provided.

Two boats on a 60 foot old raggie worth £60k and the other a Sunseeker worth £1m. Once contributes £600 to the marina when sold the other £10,000.

The value of the boat has no relationship to the service provided. Its a disgusting charge, I am sure everyone would prefer to pay a few extra pounds per annum than suffer this charge.

The charge can only be made to stick when there is more demand than berths - that position may soon change.

 

[jfm]

agree it isn't perfect, but 8% commission on boat sale and 2% on house sale is rarely proportional to service provided. Fact is, prices are set by supply and demand, nothing to do with quantity of service provided. That's free market/capitalism, and best to remind oneself that someone fortunate to own a boat (2 in Arny's case!) on balance benefits from the system rahter than suffers from it!

Logging off here...!

 

[BrokerBen]

Most brokers in yards get charged 1% of their brokerage turnover for selling boats in the yard.

The broker carries the insurance, the broker does the viewings and showing, and pays the yard for storage.

If we get 8% for selling a boat, and give 1% to the yard it hits us pretty hard too!

It is however seen as the 'norm' and so is what has to be done.