fast track yachtmaster training

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alant

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Re: fast track Yachtmaster training

"I guess it is not Fast Track that is the problem, but with whom you do it."

Partly!

Most suppliers of fast-track courses are ok, but there are obvious variations dependant upon the facilities available, so vary from just OK to 'incredibly in-depth'.


The main problem we see in practice, is HOW you do it!

Many of the 'younger' individuals on these courses, perhaps because their parents are paying the bills, seem to put in 'just enough' effort to get a bit of paper, instead of sucking up the experience/knowledge offered by often incredibly experienced/dedicated instructors.

The parents seem to consider putting their offspring through such courses as a form of 'finishing school' after other private 'education' and as an alternative to University.

The guys paying out of their own pockets, probably having worked hard to obtain these often substantial fees, recognise the opportunity & grab it with both hands, thus becoming more employable in the marine industry.

Simply an attitude scenario.
 

Richard10002

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Re: fast track Yachtmaster training

[ QUOTE ]
"I guess it is not Fast Track that is the problem, but with whom you do it."

Partly!

Most suppliers of fast-track courses are ok, but there are obvious variations dependant upon the facilities available, so vary from just OK to 'incredibly in-depth'.


The main problem we see in practice, is HOW you do it!



[/ QUOTE ]

....... And how you view it and use it once you have it.

I have a YM certificate, obtained after 30 years of sailing, but I dont consider myself a "YachtMaster". I have a lot to learn, a lot still to experience, and a lot to practice, before I would consider myself a "Master".

I still approach many situations with some trepidation, try and research them if new to me, and usually things work out. I'm guessing that if I were cocky enough to think that a YM certificate meant I knew and could do everything, sometimes it wouldnt work out and, if it did, it wight be more luck than judgement.

I also have a Master Scuba Diver Certificate, but the same applies - I'm pretty good, but not a "Master".

As long as those who obtain the YM by Fast Track, or other means, respect just what it is that they have done, they will probably be fine. If they think they are a "Master", they will come a cropper, either in reality, or merely with their peers. It is the latter who will give FTYM a bad name, but it doesnt mean that it doesnt have a place in the training scheme of things.
 

alant

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Re: fast track Yachtmaster training

"I have a YM certificate, obtained after 30 years of sailing, but I dont consider myself a "YachtMaster"."

Understand what your implying & Ok, some of us are slow learners! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
However, how long do you consider a fair apprenticeship, before anyone goes to sea?



"I have a lot to learn, a lot still to experience, and a lot to practice, before I would consider myself a "Master"."

The 'RYA' system, based upon an assessment of capability, may be flawed in its terminology - Day SKIPPER, Coastal SKIPPER, Yacht MASTER, giving recipients a view of themselves that might not be realistic.

So, when does someone change from "cocky" to "Master" & why confuse "cocky" (usually a comment upon someone young) with incapable or irresponsible?

I'm not sure this has anything to do with 'fast-track'!
 

Richard10002

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Re: fast track Yachtmaster training

[ QUOTE ]
"I have a YM certificate, obtained after 30 years of sailing, but I dont consider myself a "YachtMaster"."

Understand what your implying & Ok, some of us are slow learners! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
However, how long do you consider a fair apprenticeship, before anyone goes to sea?



"I have a lot to learn, a lot still to experience, and a lot to practice, before I would consider myself a "Master"."

The 'RYA' system, based upon an assessment of capability, may be flawed in its terminology - Day SKIPPER, Coastal SKIPPER, Yacht MASTER, giving recipients a view of themselves that might not be realistic.

So, when does someone change from "cocky" to "Master" & why confuse "cocky" (usually a comment upon someone young) with incapable or irresponsible?

I'm not sure this has anything to do with 'fast-track'!

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure such an arsey response warrants a reply, but I cant help it <g>

Anyone can go to sea at any age, but should respect their experience and ability in relation to the power and dangers of the sea.

Cocky happens at any age. I've met cocky 80 year olds, so age doesnt come into it. hlb is somewhat cocky - I dont know how old he is, but I'm guessing not a young whipper snapper.

The criticism of fast track YM seems to be that, having got it, some people think they now know it all, and dont realise how much they dont know. All I was suggesting was that those who obtain the YM by fast track should respect what they have and how they got it.

In relation to myself, whilst I got by pretty well with sailing and boat handling, (as do most people), it wasnt until I did YM that I realised how much I didnt know, and that it is a platform to build on. I have a healthy respect for the sea, and for any new or difficult situations it might present to me, and it will remain that way.
 

alant

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Re: fast track Yachtmaster training

"The criticism of fast track YM seems to be that, having got it, some people think they now know it all, and dont realise how much they dont know."

I doubt this is reserved especially for fast track YM's!


"All I was suggesting was that those who obtain the YM by fast track should respect what they have and how they got it."

respect what they have ???

and how they got it ???

Not sure I quite understand what your getting at Richard.


"However, how long do you consider a fair apprenticeship, before anyone goes to sea?

BTW, I thought this was a reasonable question, not "an arsey response" as you put it!
 

DaveNTL

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I really don't know what the fuss is all about with this 'YachtMaster' palaver.

In 2003 I went to South Africa for an extended holiday. Whilst there I signed up with an RYA school for day skipper theory immediately followed by practical followed by CS / YM theory and YM practical. I suppose you can call that fast track YM. Took about 23 days full time.

Day skipper theory was great fun, very enlightening and it was good to do a stuctured course. DS practical was also fun and I learnt some stuff I didn't know but more than anything a great experience to be whizzing about with guys who race across the atlantic. I wouldn't recommend the Mrs to do it with that particular school but no complaints here.

CS / YM theory was/is essentially a repeat of DS theory except they skip over chartwork quicker because you're supposed to know it - in DS they hold your hand through it and don't let go until you know how to do it. They skip over some stuff because there is additional work on things like weather. Then, in the test they are more strict on marking than in DS.

YM practical was a hoot and had a nice long sail up the coast and put navigation and descision making into practise. We all passed but personally I would have failed the two young university students that were with me because they were a waste of space to the extent of being dangerous, IMO.

There isn't any mystique to YM. If you have the time to do it all in one go, even if you don't already have DS, I would recommend it. If you have any nouse it isn't hard, it's just a course. If you have DS and are thinking that by doing YM you are going to become much more knowledgable than you were with DS - save your money because you won't be.

I would imagine working and doing the courses part time over months would be quite a bit harder than doing it in one go without distractions, so I think 'fast track' would be better if you can afford the time.

Since doing the courses I've bought a boat and sailed it the length of the USA east coast. Haven't sunk (yet, touch wood), learn't much more than on any course, but the courses I suppose it gave me some comfort and confidence. And reduced the insurance.

Do I have any critisisms of the courses? Yes. They should give a bit more than they do about basic engine operation, particularly keeping filters clean. I suppose the RYA want you to do the engine maintenance course - but I think anyone going offshore should know a bit more about marine engines under the DS scheme and a bit more again under YM.
 
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WTF.jpg


[ QUOTE ]
.....and in return I could teach you the art of bullshitting! I've been told I am an expert!

John

[/ QUOTE ]


"Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings.... Psalm 8.2 ( King James )"


/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 

Richard10002

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Re: fast track Yachtmaster training

"The criticism of fast track YM seems to be that, having got it, some people think they now know it all, and dont realise how much they dont know."

I doubt this is reserved especially for fast track YM's!"

Agreed, but we are talking about Fast Track YMs


"All I was suggesting was that those who obtain the YM by fast track should respect what they have and how they got it.

respect what they have ???"

and how they got it ???

Not sure I quite understand what your getting at Richard.

Merely a certificate which says yachtmaster, obtained over a very short period of time, which couldnt possibly prepare for or cover all eventualities that they might encounter as an offshore skipper. They have a foundation for gaining further experience and are part way up a learning curve.

"However, how long do you consider a fair apprenticeship, before anyone goes to sea?

BTW, I thought this was a reasonable question, not "an arsey response" as you put it!

It was a reponse which intimated that because I used the words 30 years, I was suggesting that everyone should have 30 years experience before becoming a YM, (or that was my perception). A fair apprenticeship to be an offshore skipper responsible for the welfare of a yacht and its' crew should be based on experience, judgement and responsibility, and you cant really put a time on it, but it's not 30 years.
 

DaveNTL

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Re: fast track Yachtmaster training

[ QUOTE ]
which couldnt possibly prepare for or cover all eventualities

[/ QUOTE ]

There lies the problem - what would? Who decides what would? Well, the RYA have, and it's better than nowt.

You can't go up the M6 on a moped but you can try to paddle the Atlantic in a bathtub if you want to.

I think the biggest problem with Yachtmaster is the grandiose connotations of the title. Maybe Day Skipper / Coastal Skipper / Ocean Skipper would have been more logical and in perspective.

It was interesting to watch the Yachtmaster video's again the other day. The 'Yacht Master' taking the relative novices across the Atlantic was talking about how he's quite comfortable crossing oceans, but once he starts to get near to the English Channel he gets rather twitchy.

So, your 'Day Skipper' regularly day sailing in the channel and dealing with tides and shipping may be a much better skipper for that type of sailing than the Yachtmaster who regularly crosses an ocean eh?

Or, should he (the YM) be just as twitchy crossing oceans? Familiarity breeding contempt and all that.
 

Richard10002

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Re: fast track Yachtmaster training

I think the YM sets you up with a certain level of knowledge and ability which should help you to work out what to do in a variety of circumstances.

In addition, a willingness to continue learning, practicing, doing new things, asking questions and listening to others, seems to be a fairly sensible way to go forwards.
 
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